1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Pat Buchanan's new book : The Death of the West

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by gettinbranded, Jan 2, 2002.

  1. gettinbranded

    gettinbranded Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    1,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    He rails against change basically---Islam, Mexicans, and anything non-Christian.

    Relying upon the most recent UN population studies, Buchanan declares:

    • By 2050, only 10% of the world’s people will be of European descent. One third of Europe’s people will be over 60, and one-in-ten over 80. Involuntary euthanasia has already come to Europe.

    • Between now and 2050, Asia, Africa, and Latin America will grow by three to four billion people -- 30 to 40 new Mexicos! -- as Europe will lose the equivalent of the entire population of Germany, Poland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Finland.

    • By 2050, 23 million Germans will have disappeared along with 16 million Italians and 30 million Russians.

    • Either Europe must effect a radical cutback in pensions and health care for seniors, or Europe must import scores of millions of Arabs and Africans to care for the elderly and pay the taxes to sustain their welfare states.

    • The 4.2 million Palestinians in Israel and on the West Bank and Gaza will explode to 9 million by 2025, and 15 million by 2050, when Palestinians will outnumber Israel’s Jewish population two-to-one.

    • The Islamic invasions of Spain and France in the eighth century, and of the Balkans and Central Europe from the 14th to the 17th centuries, will be reenacted in the lifetime of most of those now living. Islam has already surpassed Catholicism as the largest religion on earth.



    In his chapter La Reconquista, Buchanan contends that an invasion of the United States is taking place and that America now harbors a “nation within a nation.”

    • There are 30 million foreign born in the U.S. today, and between 9 and 11 million illegal aliens, or as many undocumented aliens in the U.S. as there are people in Rhode Island, Massachusetts and Connecticut.

    • Mexico is exporting its poor and unemployed for U.S. taxpayers to employ and educate. Radical and militant Hispanics and Mexican leaders alike believe this will lead to the cultural and demographic recapture of the Southwest from America, reversing the results of The Mexican War.

    • By supporting open borders, the GOP is committing suicide. First-time Hispanic voters chose Clinton 15-1 over Dole. Of the seven major immigration states -- Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, California, Texas and Florida -- Mr. Bush lost five, and perhaps six. Of the 10 states with the smallest share of immigrants, Bush won all 10.

    • European-Americans are a minority in America’s most populous state, California, and by 2004, will be a minority in Texas.

    • The political agenda of California Hispanics includes race welfare for illegal aliens, racial preferences, bilingual education, open borders, dual citizenship, Cinqo de Mayo as a California holiday, and, in one case, replacing a statue of an American hero of the Mexican War with the Aztec god Quetzacoatl.



    In his chapter, “The De-Christianization of America,” Buchanan argues that the death of the Christian faith in Western countries is a primary cause of their dying populations. Whenever faith dies, the people die. A new atheistic civilization is arising, he argues, and is using its dominance of the culture and the courts to drive Christianity out of the temples of our civilization.

    • Secular Humanism, widely mocked and disparaged, a few decades ago, is now the dominant faith of the nation’s cultural elites. The moral tenets of humanism are replacing those of Christianity in our public life.

    • Even Christian churches are rewriting their hymnals to make them acceptable to the dominant culture.

    • Anti-Catholic films and filthy and blasphemous anti-Christian art are the deliberate insults of a triumphant pagan and secularist faith.



    more at http://www.drudgereport.com/mattpjb.htm
     
  2. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    18,452
    Likes Received:
    119
    Pat Buchanan is the most dangerous facist/racist demagogue in America. Religious extremism, no matter what the religion, is evil.
     
  3. Grizzled

    Grizzled Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2000
    Messages:
    2,756
    Likes Received:
    40
    This has the makings of a lively discussion. :) There are numerous ways that the content of what Buchanan is saying could be debunked, but first and foremost, I'd like to make the point that as a Christian there is little to nothing that I see in Buchanan that I consider Christian. The simple fact that he claims to be Christian does not mean he is a Christian, let alone that he accurately represents Christian views.

    Mathew 7: 21-23

    "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
     
  4. gettinbranded

    gettinbranded Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    1,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just how do you recognize a Christian?

    I do agree with his point about society becoming more non-Christian. A lot of people are 'Christian' in name only---and the complete opposite if you look at their actions.
     
  5. cmrockfan

    cmrockfan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2001
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Please don't overreact here. Pat is not relevant anymore. Drudge put up the link to cause a stir, and I doubt Pat's book will sell many copies.

    There are people in this country who are far more dangerous than Buchanan.

    Put this name into your search engine- Dr. William L. Pierce. He is gaining a significant following in this country. This Nazi should have us all worried. (try www.natvan.com to be repulsed. )

    The Nation of Islam is also more dangerous than Pat Buchanan in my opinion, because they preach hate and have a wide following. How many more times do we need to hear a NOI minister call Jews "bloodsuckers" before it is ok to judge the NOI?

    Pat Buchanan is worried about our American culture disappearing. I think he has a valid claim. If we allow immigration to exceed assimiliation, how will we retain our national values? This question has nothing to do with race or religion- it has to do with the ideals that made America great.
     
  6. gettinbranded

    gettinbranded Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    1,793
    Likes Received:
    0

    When was the last time you heard that from the NOI? I live in Chicago, their hotbed, and I can tell you that they've toned it down a lot and are keeping a low profile...
     
  7. cmrockfan

    cmrockfan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2001
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gettingbranded, they have toned it down, but solely for P.R. reasons. If you believe that Farrakhan and Shabazz have completely changed their opinions, then I can't argue with your conclusion. I just have to disagree strongly.
     
  8. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,681
    Likes Received:
    16,205
    <B>I think he has a valid claim. If we allow immigration to exceed assimiliation, how will we retain our national values? </B>

    We have a much smaller percentage of immigrants in our country today than at any time in our past.

    There are some really goofy claims in that article.. For example,

    <B>• By 2050, 23 million Germans will have disappeared along with 16 million Italians and 30 million Russians. </B>

    Where did this come from? As far as I know, the population of every one of those countries is still growing.
     
  9. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    22,412
    Likes Received:
    362
    Oh, the horror of it all! :rolleyes: Buchanan is a nut plain and simple.

    Grizzled: Maybe we should post some of our emails to help explain your view of Christianity. :)
     
  10. cmrockfan

    cmrockfan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2001
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Major-

    We have a much smaller percentage of immigrants in our country today than at any time in our past.

    I think Buchanan's statistics are correct, I just don't agree with his total thesis.

    It worries me that ALL Americans are not required to master the English language. Language is the basis for culture which bonds a people together.

    It worries me that 1 out of 9 people in this country (and probably 1 out of 3 if you watch Jay Leno in the local mall) probably don't understand our history and why we became the world's only superpower.

    It worries me that most Muslim countries don't understand the importance of the separation of Church and State (and neither does Buchanan).

    It worries me that in most of the world, business negotiations start <i>after</i> a "deal" has been agreed upon.

    How do we deal with rapidly changing cultural demographics in the world and our country without losing our American culture that has led up to such greatness?

    Where did this come from? As far as I know, the population of every one of those countries is still growing.

    I know the population of many European countries, including Germany, has been shrinking for at least the last decade.
     
  11. gettinbranded

    gettinbranded Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    1,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh, I don't think they've changed their stripes at all. I have a co-worker who rants about this races effects on that race whenever I give him a listening ear (once and never again). They become, to me, somewhat cultish when you learn about their spaceship in the sky beliefs...

    Just noting that it's been a while since they've gone public with that anti-semitic stuff.
     
  12. gettinbranded

    gettinbranded Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    1,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    It was the separation of C&S that both allowed American prosperity to flourish, and at the same time delivered a slowly exploding bomb that has effectively decimated Americas moral center.
     
  13. gettinbranded

    gettinbranded Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    1,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    UN Stats.
     
  14. Grizzled

    Grizzled Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2000
    Messages:
    2,756
    Likes Received:
    40
    Well, if I'm going to use bible references, I'll start with Luke 6: 44-45

    44 Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers.
    45 The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.

    And for empashsis I'll add Galatians 5: 22-23

    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
    23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    Keeping in mind that we all struggle and fall short, I'd say that a person who exhibits this type of spirit as a tendency is displaying the true Christian spirit. To further qualify, I'd say that in that way we exhibit these qualities, we are exhibiting the true Christian spirit, and when we don't we are acting out of our own shortcomings. If someone is falling well short in a number of these areas, then I think it's a pretty good sign that they are at least struggling significantly with their faith, and may perhaps not be a Christian at all, but we not to pass judgement (as in make conclusions) of another person on this level.
     
  15. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    22,412
    Likes Received:
    362
    The English language doesn't belong to us anyway. We really speak "American." We've adapted hundreds and thousands of words from a multitude of languages and invented even more. Our language, like our cultural makeup, is spread out over hundreds of different cultures. The very fact that it is as it is probably makes for a longer life expectancy because it is less likely to fade into the obscurity of "a romance language" and also less likely to die off due to isolationism like anciet Aramaic or Herratic languages used in Egypt and Mesopotamia (God, my spelling is horrific! :) ).

    Also, what exactly is American culture? It seems to me that it takes longer than 200 years to develop a long-lasting cultural foundation. We have some basic precepts but a country as young as our own changes far too rapidly to have any long-standing cultural traditions.

    Even our symobls of America are young - the White House, the Capital, the Statue of Liberty. And, many of the other symbols and traditions we have are simply borrowed from other countries. We didn't invent them. We co-opted them from the immigrants who brought them here.

    To develop a culture that lasts over the course of time, it takes more than just deciding to have one. It takes centuries to build.
     
  16. cmrockfan

    cmrockfan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2001
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would argue that our "moral center" can be found in the Rule of Law.

    If we can communicate with eachother effectively in a national language, and share a common respect for the law, our culture will be fine. The race and religion of your next door neighbor won't matter.

    Adding religion to our government will only polarize our citizens, and cause great harm to the Union.
     
  17. Grizzled

    Grizzled Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2000
    Messages:
    2,756
    Likes Received:
    40
    I'm on it Jeff. :D
     
  18. gettinbranded

    gettinbranded Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    1,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    What of the hard questions that religiously oriented people find easy answers to---the questions that divide and polarize America?


    Like abortion?


    Most of Americas law, and Americas concepts of freedom, are founded in past cultures, that based them on religious ideals.
     
  19. gettinbranded

    gettinbranded Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    1,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'd say that these two scriptures are extremely important, but fall waaaaay short in completely defining what a Christian is...
     
  20. cmrockfan

    cmrockfan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2001
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree totally, but this is a symptom for a problem. Our people need to speak a standardized form of English so we can understand eachother's hopes, dreams, complaints, etc..

    How does an inability to communicate effectively with eachother cause disharmony in our society? I can think of many examples-

    1. Young adults from poor educational backgrounds going on a job interview.

    2. Business deals that cannot be consumated because of distrust that is a result of an inability to communicate.

    3. Police officers who can't service a community because of language barriers.

    etc....

    Of course, the answer is education, but that is an entire other thread.

    I was wrong to use the term "American Culture" for two reasons. Buchanan writes about "Western Culture", and "American Culture" is really just an offshoot of "Western Culture" (with alot of a swagger;) )

    Everybody can recognize though, that we have become the land of opportunity for many reasons. I guess the key is to identify those reasons and make sure that all Americans understand and appreciate how we got where we are today.

    Once again, the key is education.

    Buchanan suffers from the same ailment that has befallen many white separatists. I have spent hours talking with Aryan Nation members and Nazis in Yahoo chat rooms, and they all have one thing in common- they have no faith in their fellow man.

    There is a reason that we see people burning the American flag on television dressed in Nike t-shirts and Levi jeans. They want to be free and have self-determination just like Americans. I believe that most people in this world crave for bounderies like the American "Rule of Law" gives to our people. We just need to be patient, and help them get there.
     

Share This Page