Hear's my problem with this...it's not her religious convictions. But it's the possible double standard. Palin attended a church with a pastor who has made some "interesting" comments, same as Obama (and McCain for that matter). And just like I don't hold Obama to the same convictions as Wright, neither do I believe these pastor's comments reflect on Palin's beliefs. But, will she receive the same scrutiny that Obama did for his affiliation with Wright? Or better yet (although it's too late for this election), can we all just behave rationally and acknowledge that people can make up their own minds with regards to religion and spirituality? http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/08/palin.pastor/index.html
WOW !! Let's see if the press picks up on this like Obama and Wright. Speaking in tongues, I mean honestly? I don't remember Jesus speaking in tongues.....wow..... Might as well wear a sign that says...wack job on it. DD
Might want to refrain from mocking people on that subject. I don't believe there is such thing as an Atheist either... by definition, you believe there is no God... which means you are still acknowledging Him. (EDIT: I explain that last sentence in a little more, if not equally as feeble minded ways, in later posts... I'm not saying I don't believe Atheists exist. It's a weak attempt at religious irony.) BTW- Jesus Himself told the disciples to wait on the promise of the Father. And in Acts 1:8 told them why to wait on it, what it would be a sign of. The normative actions or manifestations in a "Pentecostal" setting are far more commonplace around the world than you may like to acknowledge, fwiw. And "Pentecostalism" is not the only religious sector on the planet that experiences some form of "speaking in tongues." BTW - What do you use to speak? Your rear? No. Everyone speaks in a tongue. And many speak in more than one on a regular basis. Know your current events. Also, there was already a thread on this whole subject... http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=153449
Huh? Where did I say I don't believe in God, I do. I don't believe in religion for the most part ( I think a lot of them have been bastardized for money) but I do believe in Jesus and what he preached, and no...not in made up tongues. My brother goes to a church like this, because his wife likes it.....he thinks like I do that it is all one big old can of hooey. Band Wagon effect .... Mock it? No never, Palin might as well grab a handful of snakes and hit the dance floor, yep that is what we need in the VP office....hey maybe she can color her whole body green and dance for Captain Kirk with her snake. DD
I hope that the press doesn't go after her on her religious affilations like the did Obama on Reverend Wright...it was wrong then and would be wrong now. I don't believe in guilty by religious associations. And mocking other's faith, especially hers might only solidify their base more, if that can be done. But I think it is fair to see how she her own faiths role in how she would govern. If she shows intolerance to other faiths, or if she believes she will be God's agent in office doing his will, and not a servant of the people...then she would be too radical to be in office to me no matter what her religious beliefs are..even if they are the exact same as my own.
The Catholic Charismatic movement is one other example. It's kind of an awkward thing to witness in person...kind of like when people drop to the ground after being consumed by the Spirit. And honestly, if Palin experienced any of these things than great for her...doesn't effect my judgement on her in the least. But why hasn't there been as big of an uproar over comments that are as equally shameful as Wright's? I'm not calling for that...but I don't think it's right that Obama has been scrutinized for the same thing. And I suppose I could have put this in the other thread...usually more diligent than that.
You're mocking people, and somehow that just rings hollow to people that have had these experiences... And by "you" I meant Atheists. Did not say you were one specifically. There is Biblical precedence for this "made up" phenomenon. Seriously, you need to back away from the topic you have little understanding of. Faith is not stupid. Spiritualism is not stupid. No one is excusing "snake handlers" -which are by and large world renown as people adhering to heresy - but then again... no one in there right mind thinks an Assembly of God church is a church of that persuasion either. Here's the Assemblies of God list of beliefs... (which by comparison, which I did not bring up, I'd like someone to post the Trinity Church's beliefs to see the differences...) : [rquoter]The "Four Cardinal Doctrines" are referred to above, and are summarized below... Two years after the founding of the Assemblies of God, members adopted 16 beliefs for the Fellowship. This list, known as the Statement of Fundamental Truths, remains virtually unchanged. Four of these beliefs are considered the major tenets of the Fellowship. They are: 1. Salvation Through Jesus Christ (John 3:3, 16, 17; Romans 10:13; Ephesians 2:8, 9) Salvation is received through repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, being justified by grace through faith, man becomes an heir of God, according to the hope of eternal life. 2. Baptism in the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:8; 2:4; 17, 18, 38, 39) All believers are entitled to and should ardently expect and earnestly seek the promise of the Father, the baptism in the Holy Spirit and fire, according to the command of our Lord Jesus Christ. This was the normal experience of all in the early Christian Church. With it comes the enduement of power for life and service, the bestowment of the gifts and their uses in the work of the ministry. 3. Divine Healing for the Sick (James 5:14-16) Divine healing is an integral part of the gospel. Deliverance from sickness is provided for in the atonement, and is the privilege of all believers. 4. The Second Coming of Christ (1 Thessalonians 4:14-16; 1 Corinthians 15:51, 52) The second coming of Christ includes the rapture of the saints, which is our blessed hope, followed by the visible return of Christ with His saints to reign on earth for one thousand years. For a complete list of the 16 Fundamental Truths of the Assemblies of God, click here .[/rquoter] The primary caution I give you on this is straight from Jesus... when it comes to anything having to do with whether or not you "receive" or "believe" it or not, Jesus Himself said "according to your faith so be it unto you." You cannot honestly believe that, or have the logic that, just because you have not experienced it or seen it it cannot possibly be a reality. Perception is truth. I'm just sorry you've had a poor understanding or perception of real occurrences in the lives of the literally innumerable over the centuries since the Ascension of Christ. I can also see that you seem privy to believing in someone else's word on things, whether you have witnessed them or not.... concerning any faith issue, that is most unfortunate. Personal experience or observance is the best in matters of faith. And I don't mean "I saw it once, and was creeped out." I mean really giving things a try. Furthermore, I understand that you, or no one on Earth for that matter are required in way, shape or form to be open to "tongues." There is no prerequisite for "tongues" or the like to be a believer in God... or to even have Salvation. That's not the point. The point is not to mock what we don't understand fully. But that's not really what this thread is about... although I get it that it is an across the board attack on "organized" religion in general. It's just majorly different in the case of the world's largest, most time tested and widely accepted Evangelical and Pentecostal fellowship... You of all people that seem to be open minded and willing to let others have their own lives are willingly discrediting an organization, that has a 100+ year existence as an "organized" group, in one difference of opinion... and it's a faith issue... which you have openly admitted you have little of, other than Jesus' own words, words which include admonitions and commands which you seem to ignore. Just sayin.'
LOL..ROFL...LMAO...that was funny as hell. Maybe I just let it out of the bag the I used to be a trekkie.
Just because something has been around for 100 years does not make it real or true. Scientology has been around a while too. If I offended you for your penecostal beliefs I am sorry, but I just think it is silly to speak in tongues. God is powerful enough to be a lot more clear than that......or were the 10 commandments in different tongues? I forget. DD
Gosh, her pastor sounds like he really spews vitriolic hate toward America and Americans like Jeremiah Wright.
Great points all... I basically said as much about Wright or Palin's pastor in the other thread... I'd have to hear context on any of this before I'd make much of a judgment. The media also puts spin on things, and even more so on "religious" things. Kind of like taking your friends or relatives word for it. I always like to give things a shot myself, or at least investigate them for myself..... especially in areas of religion or faith. I try not take second hand information on the next fad or wave of thought in the religious arena... Jesus warned about that stuff too. Rule of thumb, if I don't really know my self... I am doing a discredit to the party in question, and to myself, if I don't look into it before making a kneejerk reaction. People come up to me all the time asking me to pronounce my judgments on certain pastors or religious leaders... they always seem a bit shocked when I let them know that I'll have to look into it myself. It's not that I don't trust their own perception, it's just their perception, and it would be unfair of me to coattail on their perception. Last I read, each of us stands before God alone. But again, it's all a matter of Faith... and you can't base that on tangible things, for the most part, anyway. But the EVIDENCE of things not seen... that's another story... and that's the whole purpose of these "tongues."
And they said, or the visiting pastor said and her current pastor agrees, that Israel is being punished for it's sins. Agree or disagree...that's a very dangerious statement for politicians in America. But that's their views...and no one can attribute them to Mrs. Palin unless they first ask her about it and she says that they are her views. That's a legitimate question to ask.
I attend an independent Pentecostal-style church. There's tens of millions of Pentecostals in the US now and growing really fast, but it's one of the least understood denominations. Really, because works of the Spirit take such a huge part in Pentecostals' lives, we are much more ready to accept God's influence in things that most religious people don't accept.
Look, I don't mean to degrade anyone and their faith, but I find the speaking in tongues thing questionable at best. I have talked to several people that used to be Pentecostal, and they said they did it just to fit in, and nothing more. Maybe you guys have a different experience....seriously, I am happy for you if you are happy in a particular faith. You have to admit the snake handlers are wack jobs though, right? At least we can agree on that. Pentecostal Snake handlers do hurt the perception of the rest of Pentecostals. And Palin is a proven Snake handler....I mean she has 5 kids..... DD
No one else thinks it crazy that her pastors name is/was Tim McGraw? He is married to 'Faith Hill' you know. Coincedence - I think not. Anyway Speaking in Tongues. All I can say re this subject is I am a Christian (Non denominational) And I find it hard to understand. I have been a Christian from a young age (12) and I have always questioned it and the issues to a healthy degree. I think its blind stupidity to just believe everything you hear from other christians/the church/even in the Bible itself - and plenty do it. Truth is God can stand up to the questioning, so a Christian should do it, rather than accepting what is handed them...but I digress... I have been to a few churches where it has happened to people that they have either started speaking in tongues/fallen over in the spirit (have only heard of, never seen, the barking like a dog etc etc in the name of the spirit...wow ) It makes me very uncomfortable so I can only imagine what someone not as familiar with church would feel upon being around it. As has been stated far more eloquently than I could ever write up (cheers IROCit) there is a Biblical basis for this behaviour. I dont have access to a Bible to reference this right now, but Im sure it states (1 Corinthians somewhere I think??) in relation to speaking in tongues, that if a message is delivered in through a person in tongues then there must be an interpreter present to pass this onto the congregation. Only one of the times I have been in a church and someone has spoken in tongues has there been an "interpreter". The guy in tongues was just babbling the same sound over and over for like 2 mins. Then his mate stands up and gives about a 5 minute "interpretation" on a vast amount of issues....does not compute. Another thing i've heard of is people who just do it in their private time alone with God (in prayer etc)...which seems to fly in contrast to the notion that tongues are only used for a message to be delivered to the church. Seems self serving to me. Sorry if I have upset anyone with this post, its just my personal feelings on the matter.
Questioning the salvation of those who vote for another party's candidate seem to be in direct contradiction to the very ideals on which this nation was founded. That is definitely hateful towards America and Americans.
