http://twitter.com/#!/search/#palestinepapers Discuss. I think it's absolutely true. When both sides are outrageously saying it's a lie, then IMO it's definitely true.
So the Palestinians bend over backwards, completely against the will of their populace, and the Israelis are still not satisfied. Typical. I'll give the PLO negotiators credit. Statehood is the most important issue for the Palestinian people.
I just read about these papers on another site. As Azadre noted this does show that contrary to Israeli arguments that they Palestinians weren't really committed to peace that its the Israelis since even offered almost everything they have asked for they weren't willing to offer anything back. All of this though needs to be taken with a ton of salt. Like Wikileaks, I am not sure if these were part of the Wikileaks, these leaks may also prove to be a double edged sword and possibly make a diplomatic solution even harder since the PA will be less willing to make concessions knowing that previous secret concessions were made that bore no fruit and could further undermine their position in Palestinian society. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41227965/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa Palestinians offered Israel major concessions, leaked documents reveal Al Jazeera says it has obtained 1,600 documents related to Mideast peace process JERUSALEM — Palestinian negotiators secretly offered to hand over almost all of East Jerusalem to Israel, according to leaked documents that show Palestinians offering much bigger peace concessions than previously revealed. The documents, obtained by the Al Jazeera television channel, could undermine the position of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, whose public declarations about Jerusalem are at odds with what his officials were promising in private. Equally sobering for the Palestinian people, who want to create a state on land Israel seized in a 1967 war, is the fact that Israel offered nothing in return for the concessions and turned down their offer, saying it did not go far enough. The leaked minutes of a 2008 meeting between Palestinian, U.S. and Israeli officials showed a senior Palestinian proposing that Israel annex all but one of its major Jerusalem settlements as part of a broad deal to end their decades-old conflict. The leaked documents also showed that Palestinian negotiators suggested creating a joint committee to oversee Haram al-Sharif, or Temple Mount, holy sites in Jerusalem, Britain's Guardian newspaper reported. The paper had early access to the documents and said it had verified most of them. 'Bunch of lies' Al Jazeera said Sunday it had other documents that it would publish shortly showing the Palestinians were also ready to make other massive concessions on the hugely sensitive issue of the right to return for Palestinian refugees. Chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat went on the defensive, dismissing the documents as "a bunch of lies" during an appearance on Al Jazeera shortly after they were released. In a heated exchange, Erekat was confronted by critics including Abdel Bari Atwan, editor of the London-based al -Quds al-Arabi newspaper, who asked him who had authorized him or the Palestinian leadership "to give up Islamic holy sites." One document quoted Erekat as telling an Israeli official: "It is no secret that ...we are offering you the biggest Yerushalayim in history." He used the Hebrew word for Jerusalem. Ahmed Qurie, the lead Palestinian negotiator in 2008, was quoted as proposing that Israel annex all Jewish settlements in Jerusalem except Har Homa. He also said Israel could keep control of a part of the Old City of Jerusalem. "This is the first time in history that we make such a proposition," the document quoted Ahmed Qurie as saying. He added that the Palestinians had refused to make such a concession during negotiations led by the late Palestinian President Yasser Arafat in 2000. Hamas indignant Hamas, the Islamist group which governs the Gaza Strip, said the documents revealed the Palestinian Authority's role in "attempting to liquidate the Palestinian cause." "This exposes the Palestinian leadership, putting it in a position where it will be impossible to win the confidence of the people," said Zakaria al-Qaq, Palestinian commentator. However, another Palestinian commentator said the reaction would be limited. "There won't be any big reaction, it's not entirely new," said Hany al-Masri, adding that the idea of Israel keeping its large urban settlements around Jerusalem as part of a land exchange in a final deal had been floated before. Israel has always said it would keep the main settlement blocs around Jerusalem, but the Palestinian leadership has adopted a tougher stance in its public declarations, never letting on it was ready to make such ground. Abbas said as recently as last week the fate of Jerusalem was not up for discussion. "From our perspective, there are no negotiations over Jerusalem. Jerusalem is ours," he said. However, he has also made clear that West Jerusalem was Israeli and could be the capital of the Jewish State. Israel captured East Jerusalem in a 1967 war, annexing the walled Old City and a belt of surrounding West Bank land shortly after the conflict in a move that has never won international recognition. Both sides want Jerusalem as their capital. Standstill The 2008 transcript was one of some 1,600 documents related to the Israeli-Palestinian peace process that the Qatar-based channel said it had obtained in recent months from a variety of sources. The release of the so-called 'Palestinian Papers' comes just weeks after WikiLeaks starting publishing some 250,000 secret U.S. diplomatic cables. The Middle East peace talks are at a standstill due to a dispute over Jewish settlement construction in the occupied West Bank, with the Palestinians refusing to return to the negotiating table until Israel halts the building programs. The Palestinians say settlement growth on land occupied by Israel in 1967 will make the establishment of a viable Palestinian state impossible. They want to found their state in the West Bank and Gaza, with East Jerusalem as its capital. The settlements are deemed by the World Court to be illegal. The 2008 meeting was part of talks held at the time between the Palestinians and the Israeli government of the then prime minister, Ehud Olmert. They came to an end when Olmert was forced from office over corruption allegations in 2009. Current Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has traditionally taken a much tough stance than his predecessor. There was no immediate comment from Israeli officials on the Al Jazeera leaks.
Dude, don't de-rail your own thread! Wait for ATW. The leak is bad news for peace. Not that it was making any headway anyway. But, it will end up polarizing Palestinians, which will justify instransigence to the Israelis.
I would say that, assuming the papers are true, it shows that Israel is not going to accept less than what they have stated they are willing to accept. Almost everything they have asked for means not everything they have asked for.
If the papers are true and the Palestinians were willing to give in on the right of return issue, but Israel wouldn't give an inch then Israel doesn't appear to want to appear to negotiate for a peaceful settlement that includes a Palestinian state.
In this case, Israeli leader == Israel on the mere fact that they are both internationally recognized and democratically elected in fair and free elections.
The leadership of Israel does not equal all Israelis, but they do represent the official position of Israel. So when they refuse to accept any sort of deal even when the Palestinians give in on the right of return issue, It is Israel that is doing that. Believe me I can definitely separate the population from the leadership. When W. invaded Iraq that was the US doing it, but it wasn't the population of the US.
http://972mag.com/the-ultimate-confirmation/ Monday, January 24 2011|Joseph Dana The Palestine Papers: The ultimate confirmation The cables released last night by Al Jazeera, which form the Palestine Papers, have provided ultimate confirmation of what many on the ground have known for some time – Israel is not interested in an equitable two state solution. Instead Israel is interested in maintaining the status quo, which necessarily means that both Palestinian and Israeli society will be in a permanent state of war. Control of the Palestinian population in the West Bank and the separation of the West Bank from Gaza is the form of the Israeli-imposed one state solution. Crippling land annexation in the form of settlement expansion and development of Israeli infrastructure permanently change the facts on the ground while the United States, the main broker in the region, remains deftly silent. This continues while Israel informs the world that there is no Palestinian partner for negotiations and refuses to even provide documents detailing the Israeli bottom line. This is not a new story, it has been happening for years. We now have ultimate confirmation that this is what was happening behind closed doors. However, I am left with a lingering and specific question regarding the United States. During negotiations regarding Jerusalem, the Palestinian Authority was ready to give up part of the contentious East Jerusalem neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah. Israel simply rejected the offer and began moving settlers into Palestinians homes in the neighborhood. Apparently the Israeli rationale was that the Palestinians were ready to give it up, might as well move settlers in, create facts on the ground and force them to ‘give up’ different territory. A simple land grab. What is striking is that the United States monitored this entire process. American officials were aware of the Palestinian offer and then watched in relative silence while Israel created a new settlement. Hilliary Clinton did deplore the actions of Israel in Sheikh Jarrah but the language was more tempered than that of the Europeans who literally watched the take over from their consulates in the neighborhood. We are left with a number of revelations that are not surprising or new. Israel is not interested in an equitable two state solution, preferring a one state in which the Palestinians are controlled without democratic recourse. The Palestinian Authority is an effective instrument of Israeli occupation which is not representative of Palestinians. Finally, the United States is a dishonest broker who is acting like Israel’s lawyer and main supplier of aid. Again nothing new, now we just have concrete proof. These documents do not represent the death of the two state solution, they show that it never really began.
http://english.aljazeera.net/palestinepapers/2011/01/201112512109241314.html The al-Madhoun assassination Documents include handwritten notes of 2005 exchange between PA and Israel on plan to kill Palestinian fighter in Gaza. The Palestinian Authority (PA) has shown operational willingness to co-operate with Israel to kill its own people, the Palestine Papers indicate. Madhoun's family reactsAmong the documents are notes, handwfritten in Arabic, revealing an exchange in 2005 between the PA and Israel on a plan to kill a Palestinian fighter named Hassan al-Madhoun, who lived in the Gaza strip. Al-Madhoun (born 1973) was a leading figure within the Al Aqsa Martyr’s Brigade, a movement aligned to Fatah, which at that stage still held power in Gaza. Al-Madhoun had been accused by Israel of planning deadly bombings at Israel’s Ashdod port and the Qarni crossing between Gaza and Israel. In a joint committee meeting on fugitives in mid-2005 in Tel Aviv between Shaul Mofaz, the then-Israeli defence minister, and Nasser Youssef, the PA minister of interior, the PA was asked to kill al-Madhoun. Mofaz: “[…] Hassan Madhoun, we know his address and Rasheed Abu Shabak [chief of the Preventative Security Organisation in Gaza] knows that. Why don't you kill him? Hamas fired [Qassam rockets] because of the elections and this is a challenge to you and a warning to Abu Mazen [Mahmoud Abbas, the PA president].” Youssef: “We gave instructions to Rasheed [Abu Shabak] and will see.” Mofaz: “Since we spoke, he has been planning an operation, and that's four weeks ago, and we know that he wants to strike Qarni or Erez [another border crossing between Gaza and Israel]. He is not Hamas and you can kill him.” Youssef: “We work, the country is not easy, our capabilities are limited, and you haven't offered anything.” Mofaz: “I understand that nothing has been accomplished in the [Gaza] Strip.” Less then a month after this meeting, on November 1, 2005, al-Madhoun was killed in his car by a missile fired from an Israeli Apache helicopter over the skies of Gaza. The attack also killed a wanted Hamas activist and wounded three other people. The very next day, Mofaz, who by that time was in Washington, pledged to ease the lives of Palestinians and to pursue peacemaking with President Abbas. "We want to deal with President Abbas," Mofaz said after meeting with Condoleezza Rice, the then-US Secretary of State, before going to the White House to confer with Stephen Hadley, the then-national security adviser. "We are waiting to see how the Palestinian Authority will deal with terrorist groups," the Israeli minister said. The Palestine Papers appear to reveal two primary motives for the Palestinian Authority’s collaboration with Israel and their crackdown on dissent. Firstly, it serves to maintain the movement’s political supremacy at a time when it is being questioned. Secondly, it is an attempt to signal to the US that it wants to remain a trusted partner in peace talks, regardless the costs. Saeb Erekat, the PA’s chief negotiator acknowledged the cost of gaining US approval and Israeli trust, in a meeting on September 17, 2009 with David Hale, the deputy US Middle East envoy. Erekat: We have had to kill Palestinians to establish one authority, one gun and the rule of law. We continue to perform our obligations. We have invested time and effort and killed our own people to maintain order and the rule of law. It is not clear as to which killings Erekat is referring to but the discussion about the plan to kill al-Madhoun is just one example of how, since the death of Yasser Arafat, Fatah’s policy of resistance to Israel has become one of collaboration. The Palestine Papers show how the Al Aqsa Martyr’s Brigade, once the spearhead of action against the Israeli occupation, has been transformed into a body that helps maintaining it. During the Annapolis talks in 2008, Ahmed Qurei, the former Palestinian prime minister also known as Abu Ala, and his Israeli counterpart Tzipi Livni, discussed collaboration between the brigade and the Israeli security forces. “Al Aqsa Martyr’s Brigade is part of the Fatah movement and they agreed to be part of the current security apparatus, even though this was not my position when I was a prime minister. I wanted the Brigade to remain as it was to confront Hamas,” Qurei told Livni. With the common goal of destroying Hamas, the Palestine Papers reveal the extent to which the PA, the US and Israel were willing to work together, and the extent to which the PA linked the fate of Hamas with its own political survival. “[…] reaching an agreement is a matter of survival for us. It’s the way to defeat Hamas,” Erekat told Marc Otte, the EU negotiator, in June 2008. Earlier that year, on January 22, Qurei told Livni; “We’ll defeat Hamas if we reach an agreement, and this will be our response to their claim that gaining back our land can be achieved through resistance only.”
