Most threads on this BBS seem to deal at least in part with the Rockets chances to make the playoffs. As a fan of the Rockets, but one who doesn't count them as his favorite team, I believe that many on this board hold overly optimistic and almost silly beliefs regarding the Rockets and the teams they will battle for a playoff spot. I don't want to start a flame war, just a debate. Here we go: There are four playoff teams that many Rockets fans have little respect for: the Kings, the Timberwolves, the Sonics, and the Jazz. All of these teams won more games than the Rockets last season, and other than the Jazz, all will return their core. The Jazz are aging, and they might finally collapse. But if they do collapse, Seattle will win more games than them anyway. The Wolves are a young team and despite the loss of Sealy, there's good reason to think they could improve on their 50 win season. The Kings have arguably the best power forward in the league and beat the Rockets at every frontcourt position. As for the Sonics, I've been writing them out of the playoffs for a long time. But they have the best PG in the league, a decent backcourt rotation, and a better small forward than the Rox. Vin will probably be better than Mo as well. Now, for a non-playoff team (at least for now): the Mavericks. The Mavericks won more games than the Rockets last year, so we'll look at their off-seasons and decide who did better: The Rockets added: Jason Collier, Maurice Taylor, and Dan Langhi. The Mavericks added: Etan Thomas, Courtney Alexander, Donnell Harvey, Ed Najera and Christian Laettner and subtracted Erick Strickland, Greg Buckner and Cedric Ceballos. Okay, how was the Rockets offseason so much better that they will now eclipse the Mavs? The Mavs were better last year and they improved their talent level over the offseason. I don't see how Houston is now the better team because they added an under-achieving power forward. The Rockets themselves have profound weaknesses. I believe they will have the best 3 guard rotation in the league if they don't already. However, there are serious frontcourt weaknesses: Jason Collier is not even close to being an NBA center. I consider him a project at this point. Cato's a project too. Walt's pretty good, but is he a playoff caliber small forward? Is there a playoff team with a starting small forward of Walt's level? Mo's talented, and could have a renaissance after escaping the Clippers, but he's no Garnett or even an aging Karl Malone. And let's not talk about Houston's frontcourt depth. How I think the playoffs will look: 1.Port./LA 2.Port./LA 3.Phoenix/SA 4.SA/Phoenix 5.Minnesota 6.Dallas 7.Seattle/Utah/Sacto 8.Utah/Sacto/Seattle 9.Sacto/Seattle/Utah 10.Houston I'd love to see the Rockets to make the playoffs, but these teams outperformed the Rockets last year, and Houston just didn't have a good enough offseason to catapult ahead of them. ------------------ "Homosexuals are just trying to make their sodomy as morally acceptable as the sodomy I enjoy in my church-sanctioned marriage." Frank Brodhagen, The Onion
I think Vince summed up our playoff chances best... "Things stay the same until they change." Bob* ... do I need an asterix for that one. Or was that just my own summary of Vince's wombling spew.
You better use the * just in case ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know.
"Okay, how was the Rockets offseason so much better that they will now eclipse the Mavs? The Mavs were better last year and they improved their talent level over the offseason. " I'm not quite sure bout this, but dint the Rox win the series against the Mavs 3-1 last season? I thought I heard that somewhere. "As for the Sonics, I've been writing them out of the playoffs for a long time. But they have the best PG in the league, a decent backcourt rotation, and a better small forward than the Rox. Vin will probably be better than Mo as well." They may have the best PG in the league, but Francis will be 2nd or 3rd best, and might even eclipse the aging Payton this year. Payton will only get worse, but Francis will only improve. Yeah, they have a better small forward than us, but we have a better center rotation than they do. And the jury's still out on Vin Baker and Mo Taylor. I'm sure that the new Baker will be a little bit better than Mo, but if Mo truly comes in and starts to defend/rebound, then MO isnt really that far behind from Baker. Maybe even better. "I don't see how Houston is now the better team because they added an under-achieving power forward." Mo might be an underachieving pf, but he IS starter material with serious potential to be an all star, ESPECIALLY if he rebound/defend. The Mavs did improve over the offseason, but they dint really improve that much more than we did. I think Langhi, over the course of the season, can become a SOLID contributor. I mean, he's got sucha pure shot, and he's athletic too. He should get a lot of points simply spotting up on the fast break... Mooch and Francis will find him. Collier was drafted to play OUR style of offense. He will fit in much better when we're actually playing. His job is to bring the shot blockers out of the lane and shoot open jumpers created by our penetration. He should thrive in that offense. "Walt's pretty good, but is he a playoff caliber small forward? Is there a playoff team with a starting small forward of Walt's level? " Is there a team with a pg of Francis's level? ONly Payton and Kidd match up with Francis... and Francis has been workin out and killing the summer leagues all offseason too. He's gotten better. Is there a team with a 6th man of MObley's level? Only Rodney Rogers matches up with Mobley, and Mobley mite be even better. Pretty much, their backcourt makes up for their frontcourt shortcomings. And our frontcourt is pretty good too... Cato has been working out all offseason and he should AT THE LEAST the same level as last season. Taylor, I believe, will finally do the intangibles and play a lot better after leavin the Clipps. Taylor mite not be Garnett, but YOU CANNOT compare him to Garnett. Garnett is one of the top 5 players in the league... and Malone is one of the best pf's in the game. WEll thats my perspective... Rox I think will make it to 7th or 8th seed. DAMN I WROTE A LOT. ------------------ president of the dan langhi fan club. [This message has been edited by alaskansnowman (edited September 03, 2000).]
Here's a big IF. If Hakeem stays healthy all year and produces decent numbers then the Rockets have added a quality center to this year's team as well. ------------------
As far as the Mavs, or any other team are concerned, having talented players and having a good team aren't synonymous. The Rocks have a better coaching staff than most of the teams mentioned, and alot of that awfull word "potential". Until the end of the season, potential is all any team has. Frankly, I'm impressed with the improvements the Rockets made this summer and keeping Cat. Playoffs? If so, the team shows impovement. If not, we get a better draft pick. Win, win situation. ------------------ "Never give a sucker an even break. Nor wisen up a chump."
Gen.......Don't forget a team always play better when they have some chemistry between them. Starting line up of Houston last year had no chemistry at all. And I doubt the Mav will do a lot better this season with all these new additions. ------------------ HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA......
[/B][/QUOTE] Just curious. Rockets=Mavs (in team wise) Rockets=Playoff team(being over optimistic) Mavs=6th Playoff team(being realistic). Well, your logic says it all. ------------------ Hack a Shaq you'll be winning Hack-him you'll be dreaming.
Gen, I addressed most of your issues on another thread - like the 3-1 series to the Rocks and the Rocks winning in April when the Mavs had the best April record in the NBA and your lengthy list of additions of only which Laettner vs Mo means anything. Bottomline is this. The Clutch BBS is designed for FAN expression. It is the nature of most FANS to be optimistic (some overly, some cautiously). FANS and players with winning attitudes have at least one thing in common - belief in the renewal of the season and that anything is possible with some hard work. I would be VERY disappointed in the entire Rockets organization if there was *anyone* who did not think making the playoffs was a reasonable and attainable goal. This is how WINNERS view life. ------------------ GATER
Amen, Gater. I couldn't have said it better myself! ------------------ Save our children from the TAAS test: TAAS test report card TAAS test fact sheet Dog lover here....cats beware.
[/B][/QUOTE] Gen, Sorry to rain on your parade but there are few thing I like to debate about the Mavs. First of all, let me allow to write down some pros and negatives about the your. Pros. 1.Great core with Finely and Dirk. Personally I think Finely has one of the hardest working stars in the league. 2.Rich, ambitious owner. It seems like Mark will spen whatever it takes to win the championship. Plus judging from the draft moves he made, he's not that bad acting chairman. 3.Team atmosphere. It seems like Mavs camp have never been more happier. New owner, winning record(second half that is), off-season moves, and motivated crowd, makes them trememdous place to be in right now. 4.Good depht. It is essential to have a lot of versatille and capable back-ups since the injury problems are inevitable. 5.Good home record. In order to make the PO you have to win the home matches for various reasons. The more home matches you win, the more fan will be visiting. Also the players will get much more motivated. N. 1. Nelson, enough said. 2. Match-up problems. Finely plays SF and Dirk plays SF(slow feet), PF(not strong enough to out muscles guys like Webber), C(pity...). Please!!!How are you going to win when your best players are playing out of position. HE is not a bad point guard but there is no way hell he'll be matching up against guys like Steve, Cassell, Marbury, Payton, Kidd and Brandon etc. Bradley is just another walking stick. It's not even funny when you compared him with Cato. 3. No legitimate C. 4. Nobody that reliable from the coaching staff. Having two, three coaches on one player is not the way to improve your player. Instead of having 100coaches I would rather have one influential coach whom players are prepared to listen and follow. 5. No leader. It is too early to tell whether your team will be a playoff team or not but I think your team will be up there competing with the Rockets, Sonics, Jazzs and Kings. P.S. According to ESPN report, Houston is a playoff team and Kings future is rather bleak. ------------------ Hack a Shaq you'll be winning Hack-him you'll be dreaming.
You do make some valid points. The Rockets finished very strong last year. With the addititon of MO and another year under Francis' belt the Rockets should finish slightly over .500. Will that be enough to make the playoffs? We don't know but we definitly will be in the hunt. So it's not unrealist to believe we will. ------------------
Basketball is not that complicated of a sport. It's who can get the ball in the basket more times than the opponent. I think that the Rockets last year at the end of the season proved they had a core that could put the ball in the basket more than the opponent. Now they add Mo Taylor to the team. Last years team was good, I concur that I tought that they were not a playoff team simply for the fact that they had no buffer if any one of the top scorers had a prolonged slump. But add Mo Taylor and either Francis or Mobley has a slump and you still have Taylor and another scorer. Big names don't usually automatically win games and playoffs, it's what you do with your team that matter. Remember Golden state, they had Webber, Seikley, Mullin, Sprewell, and Hardaway. That looks like a team that should have won 3 championships!!!! And don't forget about the 1st Rocket championship team; big names recognizable were Hakeem.... But we knew here at Houston when it wasn't clutch city that we had a good thing going. And it came to light to the Rest of the NBA; and still after that championship we had doubter, then we got another to shut them up!!! It's all about synergy. The sum of the whole is greater than the sum of each individual piece. The case that disproves that 1+1=2 and 1+1=3 is correct. This team has synergy!!!!!!!!!!! To be proven in May and June!!!!!!! ------------------ The guns are cocked and the soldiers are in place, it's time to march and let the battles decide the war.
Few things to correct. Nowitzky=Rahim. LOL...I know what you're saying but hey you being way too generous for the Mavs. Dickerson=Alexander. Not even close Harrington=Laetner. Not even close either. Mavs are no way near the Grizz on talent wise, but Dallas is the more likely team to make the playoffs due to their strong squad. Gen, You should think about the word 'depth' more. We have pretty good bench you know. ------------------ Hack a Shaq you'll be winning Hack-him you'll be dreaming.
>>I'm not quite sure bout this, but dint the Rox win the series against the Mavs 3-1 last season? I thought I heard that somewhere.<< That has nothing to do with who will have the better regular season record. >>They may have the best PG in the league, but Francis will be 2nd or 3rd best, and might even eclipse the aging Payton this year. Payton will only get worse, but Francis will only improve. Yeah, they have a better small forward than us, but we have a better center rotation than they do. And the jury's still out on Vin Baker and Mo Taylor. I'm sure that the new Baker will be a little bit better than Mo, but if Mo truly comes in and starts to defend/rebound, then MO isnt really that far behind from Baker. Maybe even better.<< PG GP vs. Francis SG Shandon vs. Barry SF Lewis vs. Walt PF Baker vs. Taylor C Grant vs. Cato 6th Cat vs. Ruben Patterson 7th Langhi? vs. Mason "Walt's pretty good, but is he a playoff caliber small forward? Is there a playoff team with a starting small forward of Walt's level? " >>Is there a team with a pg of Francis's level?<< Nets, Suns, Sonics. Other fine western conference PGs: Brandon, Stoudamire, Stockton. >> ONly Payton and Kidd match up with Francis...<< Everyone matches up with Walt. >> and Francis has been workin out and killing the summer leagues all offseason too. He's gotten better. Is there a team with a 6th man of MObley's level?<< Sure. Portland (whomever), Minnesota (if they decide to make it Wally), Phoenix, maybe Dallas. But I've already said Houston has a killer backcourt rotation. The frontcourt and it's depth is the problem. >> Only Rodney Rogers matches up with Mobley, and Mobley mite be even better. Pretty much, their backcourt makes up for their frontcourt shortcomings. And our frontcourt is pretty good too... Cato has been working out all offseason and he should AT THE LEAST the same level as last season. << Shawn Bradley has been working out this offseason. It doesn't necessarily mean anything. >> Taylor, I believe, will finally do the intangibles and play a lot better after leavin the Clipps. Taylor mite not be Garnett, but YOU CANNOT compare him to Garnett. Garnett is one of the top 5 players in the league... and Malone is one of the best pf's in the game.<< Nowitzki and Baker are better. ------------------ "Homosexuals are just trying to make their sodomy as morally acceptable as the sodomy I enjoy in my church-sanctioned marriage." Frank Brodhagen, The Onion
Just curious. Rockets=Mavs (in team wise) Where did I say they were equal? If I did, I'm sorry. The Mavs are better. Rockets=Playoff team(being over optimistic) Mavs=6th Playoff team(being realistic). Well, your logic says it all. We'll see. [/b][/QUOTE] ------------------ "Homosexuals are just trying to make their sodomy as morally acceptable as the sodomy I enjoy in my church-sanctioned marriage." Frank Brodhagen, The Onion
Ummm Gen, 7th man for the rockets as Dan Langhi? Our bench: Mobley Cato Thomas Langhi Norris Rogers Collier (Drew) If you can't see that that's a pretty damn solid bench then you're nuts!! Add that to a starting lineup of Olajuwon Taylor Williams Anderson Francis And it looks like a damn strong team ON PAPER but teams on paper mean nothing and they have to produce on the court. If the rockets don't lose all their big men to injury again this season then they should do quite well! As for your off-season acquisitions, I'd rate Mo Taylor as a MUCH better player than ANYONE that the mavs picked up - in fact Ceballos is a better player than anyone the mavs picked up. It's all about how well people can play together - throwing a whole bunch of good players out there is useless unless they help cover up for each others weaknessess! ------------------
Gen- first off, I think that it will be a hard battle to make it to the playoffs, even with the addition of Taylor. Let me explain why I think we can do it. It would appear that the regular season record is significant to you. I think it is very important to keep in mind that the Rockets played .500 ball in the new millenium. From January on, we had a .500 record including some remarkable winning streaks and some nasty losing streaks. We are not building on the record we had for the season- what was it? 33 wins? Here's the deal- the injuries to Hakeem and Charles meant far more than just injuries to the best players on the team. It required an entire new game plan, coaching style, play calling, and the official handing the reigns over to the young'uns. Did they suck it up through December? Oh, yes they did indeed. Big time. But January came, and suddenly the team was using the New System successfully- and winning very, very big games. It took the Rockets 2-3 months to adopt a completely reversed style of gameplay, from post-oriented to guard oriented; they took it, trusted it, and won with it. How long did it take Dallas to start winning consistently with the same cast? The real season for the Rockets began Jan 1st. December was the post- injuries training camp. By the end of the season this was a .500 club. Period. And we are only getting better from there, baby, even if we didn't add a single player. The Rockets were just finding their niche and kicking ass. The only true glaring hole in the lineup was offense in the post. Now we have it. We also have some new big men who can drain the long bomb, which is perfect for our system. You also seem to be a matchups guy, which really isn't very meaningful in the world of winning and losing games. Remember Orlando's cast. Remember Vancouver. Rockets have a coaching staff that completely changed the system of play in mid-season and showed tons of potential. The Rockets are a winning organization. It only gets better from here.
Both Dallas and Houston had a good offseason and i think have a good shot at the playoffs.I do not see where Gen sees we lack depth,we dont have the deepest team but we do have a very solid bench.We really dont have a problem with are frontcourt but more of a ??? it all depends on Hakeem,but it will be something we will work on the next few offseasons.No one can predict the future and you never know what will happen but the rockets have just as much a chance at playoffs than Dallas.Also,not only did are players have to get use to a whole totally different system so did the staff,its like we just started off from scratch in the middle of the season! 1 more thing,and im sorry cause i hate the Jazz,but i dont see where everyone thinks they have dropped off.Sure they lost Horney&Eisley and Malone and Stocton have another year under there belt but they also gained some nice pickups.If Vaughn can contribute this team may be better than last season. ------------------
