I got this via email from a friend, ex-Army. He writes: The best description of our dilemma I've read yet. May God help up make the right decisions. A view from Afghanistan that I received from a friend that I pass on to more friends who may be thinking about the coming war that Bush and 63.9% of the rest of the US wants so badly. The author is an Afghani-American writer. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done." And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing. I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters. But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country. Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan -a country with no economy, no food. There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban. We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban-by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time. So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else?
That's probably the best-described reality of what we face that I've read -- up until the part of conquering Pakistan and creating WW3. Someone will allow us to go in with ground troops, if not them. And if the people of Afghanistan support us (the Northern Alliance has already committed 15,000 troops if we go in), I don't think the "war against Islam" rant will work. In terms of the bombings and such, though, there's no question that bombing all over the place will accomplish nothing and likely by counterproductive.
I agree to a point. Pakistan is going to let the United States through, they have announced that. So going through Pakistan shouldn't be a problem. I see his other points though.
I had not heard that the Northern Alliance committed troops, that is excellent news that they will support this. Unfortunately, they have supposedly committed human rights violations also, but I cannot imagine them being worse than the Taliban or bin laden. Our leaders have failed to present the plight of the Afghani. That worries me. 'Collateral damage' would not be acceptable at all if Americans knew what was going on over there, and how the average Afghani was saying things like 'I hope the Americans understand that we are not the enemy'. Another Afghani woman with 4 children was not even leaving Kabul, because she felt life was so horrible anyway that 'they might as well bomb us'. I agree with the writer. Our steely resolve should be an understanding that it will take a horrible ground war. Other Muslim countries will see that we 'get it', that all human life is sacred regardless of religion, and that we are willing to pay the price to insure that innocents are not killed. Let's do what we need to do the right way, then help this country get back-up on its feet. It will be the right thing to do, and it will be a clear signal to other Muslim nations that we are on their side too.
Thanks, Rich. Some of the best reading yet. This could get massively ugly- a lot depends on just what percentage of the 1.2 billion Muslim population is hardcore anti-west fundamentalist. I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that many of the anti-west arab nations are run by fundamentalist militant minorities. Many of these are exremely troubled by the younger moderate generation, accepting of western ideals of government and economy. I'm hoping and praying that these moderates are the majority, and with help, could have an influence on their respective governments. If the call to Jihad works, and this truly becomes an 'Islam vs. the West' kind of thing, this could become absolutely horrible.
<B>Our leaders have failed to present the plight of the Afghani. That worries me. </B> I agree -- I think the best thing Bush could do now is nationally televise some of the hell that is going in Afghanistan. I think people would be shocked and it might help rally world and US opinion around the idea of not only eliminating the Taliban but actually going in and doing some really positive things there (assuming all of this is even militarily feasible, which might not be the case). It would be a bit of a change in US policy because there's not really any direct "national interest" served by reforming Afghanistan, but it would be a statement about our commitment to human rights.
The writer is right on. Bin Laden's most fond dream is WWIII, Islam vs. Israel and the West. Regarding Pakistan's gracious words for the US, I believe the following conditions have been attached to any cooperation on their part: - pardoning of $1B of debt owed to us - full ownership of the state of Kashmir from neighboring India - release of all sanctions - recognition of their military dictatorship as an official goverment - relaxed controls on their nuclear capabilities Some of these are obviously a joke and will not be possible for us to honor. Other than Saudi, Kuwait, UAE, and maybe one or two others, I do not foresee any Islamic government showing any real cooperation to us in the coming war.
I don't think it means that at all. I think it means having U.S. ground troops die in a foreign country. That's what I think. I agree, and I don't think our current leadership or military is even considering this. I'm sure they know it would simply be a waste of money and arms, not to mention the waste of innocent lives. It just doesn't make sense in today's world. But, no matter how the assault is performed innocent Afgans will die. They (innocent people, not Afgans) did in Vietnam. They did in Iraq. Saddam Hussein even used them as human shields. If people are forced to live or hide in areas that the ruling party/gov't/etc knows to be a military site, then of course they will suffer losses, but that will be on the head of the Taliban or whoever. I agree. Unfortunately, I think many innocent citizens of countries who harbor rulers who's aim is to harm the U.S. are being told that any and everything that is bad or wrong in their country is the fault of all of us here in the U.S. They don't have anything but anti-American sentiments being thrown at them 24/7. It is not their fault, but if they are anything like anyone here in the U.S. (and of course they are), many will get caught up in this fervor and believe in a Jihad against "The West". I pray that does not happen. Unfortunately, there is a shred of truth to the propaganda the Anti-American leaders use. We as a nation are not 100% innocent. Our government has done things that we as citizens would not approve of. I do think, however, that our overall goals and tactics are not as severe as many fanatical groups that are out for revenge. One thing about Afganistan that, if I'm not mistaken, is that our government actually helped to set up the Taliban. We supplied aid as long as the Russians were there, but as soon as the Soviets left, so did we. The Afgans were left with a destroyed economy, agricultural system, suburban infrastructure, etc. We didn't help them once the Commies left, we abandoned them. To me that is unforgiveable. We basically supplied this nesting ground that bin Laden could use to gain support and strength. Of course, nothing we did can justify the killing of thousands of innocent people, but the mentality that exists over there is not totally without basis. I only can hope that we can somehow change that or at least change the momentum in the other direction. I hope not only for us, but all of humanity.
This is exactly why I said a surgical strike, where you take out the leaders, and get Bin Laden. Then, and this is CRUCIAL....you help them build their economy and cities back up, exactly what we did to Germany, and Japan and Italy at the end of WW2. DaDakota
DaDakota I agree we need a surgical strike also, the biggest obstacle I see is the terrain in Afghanastan. After listening to quite a few military "experts" they say that the mountains will cause a major problem in terms of locating Bin Laden. Apparently he has bunkers deep inside the mountains and we will be hard pressed to locate exactly where he is hiding. Any thoughts on how we would go about this?
Don't underestimate the fact that there are "militant muslims" in Tajikstan and Pakistan (and Iran and the surrounding region)- sure the governments of those countries are willing to allow the US to use their countries as a staging ground, but will these factions? Scarier thought is that the Taliban has access to nuclear firepower and I can't see them being afraid to use it. Death holds no fear for them.
It is unlikely the Taliban has the funds to obtain nuclear capabilities, and if they were to somehow achieve this they surely would lack the technology to deliver a warhead w/ any range. What they likely do have is biological weaponry, which is relatively cheap and accessible to most anyone. The Pakistani Military's nuclear capabilities are well-documented.
The Taliban CERTAINLY has fear of dying. Why else would they be hiding right now? It is never the leaders that go about this sensless act, it is the poor ignorant brainwashed folk at the bottom of the food chain. DaDakota
"When I take action, I’m not going to fire a $2 million missile at a $10 empty tent and hit a camel in the butt. It’s going to be decisive.” - GW Bush Pakistan has agreed to allow us to move through and over their land....issue solved. Bombing the desert? The quote above kind of explains that the plan does not call for that. We may bomb as a diversion, then send in surgical eradication troops.......but I sincerely doubt we will bomb sand.
All signs point to the U.S. attacking specified targets, which do not include simple human annihilation. I don't see why anyone would think we'd do that in the first place.
Oh and India will just stand by. They are desperate to give up part of their country so US can get help from their worst enemy in Pakistan. Dont get me wrong, I am not making fun of you gimp. I am just saying that this particular demand is totally outrageous. I do not believe Pakistan has asked for it, as US has nothing to do with Kashmir. If US is committed to destroy all forms of terrorism it must also look into Pakistani sponsored terrorism in Kashmir after the Taliban has been taken cared of. Bin Laden is a a-hole that hates India as much as the West and has been sponsoring terrorism in the stated of Jammu/Kashmir for quite some time. I hope out of all of this somehow India and Pakistan become a little more less hostile towards each other. I am from India, but I do not hate Pakistan or anything. My dream would be to see these two nations become friends.
The militants in pakistan ARE the government in charge. pakistan has made some requests that have been leaked. 1. remove sanctions 2. relieve the 30 billion dollar debt 3. and a more active role in kashmir what they give in return 1. airspace to the coalition except to Israel and Iran 2. Pakistani Inetlligence However they refuse to allow any ground troops from any other nation to step foot in the region. **** what we can expect from america.... Keep in mind that G.W. was a "behind the scenes" PR person for his father. G.W. rightly or wrongly knows how to get america behind him (though at this time, even if Marilon Manson were president im sure we all be behind him). G.W. knows americans want a quick and virtually bloodless war like the one in the gulf. So it was no surprise that the only thing they asked pakistan was for airspace initially. That ... is good. however, Just like his father, G.W. has put a criteria out for this war on terrorism. He has specifically named Bin Laden as his target, going as far as saying he wants him dead or alive. very simialar to what his fater said. what happened when bush lost that next election... Iraq celebrated that it had one the war. after all Saddam who the US wanted out, was still in. And Bush was not. which lead to their resurgence of confidence and that brief scare early in Clinton's tenure. That ... is bad **** One other thing to note is the CIA has already once entered Afghanistan to try and dethrone Osama unsuccessfully. This time we will be able to have a lot more fire power, if we would try to do something like that, but even then we did not have pakistan's help. If the CIA has once entered the country, i dont see how we would not be able to do it again.
Part of the beef (halal) pakistanis have with the US is that the US acts as the enforcer of the UN. They say that so many times the US goes in to countries under the flag of the UN, but that they are anti Islam because of the instances that America chooses. They say that the UN has a resolution passed that says Kashmir rightfully belongs to Pakistan, so why then doesnt the US help their when millions of people are dying in war.
