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Our mindset over free-agency thought / approach suggestion!!

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by Big Dogzz, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. Big Dogzz

    Big Dogzz Member

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    I have been thinking about the Texans free agency prospects for a long time and I know this may sound insane but hear me out on a few points:

    1) If Peyton Manning is truly willing to go the free agency route this year he will most probably do it not being as much of a cap burden and rather as an incentive laden type of deal. If he is truly interested in the Texans this contract would be do-able. If he plays and performs perhaps he could stretch out 2-3 years with us in our regime.

    2) Additionally if the Texans assess T.J Yates as a potential future franchise quarterback (which I think he has shown some characteristics of being worthy of being) then perhaps he can take over the team in a matter of a 2-3 years.

    3) Matt Schaub's contract is about to be up by the end of NEXT year, meaning we have to decide if he is worthy of being our FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.

    4) You have to ask yourself if Matt Schaub is truly (and I mean truly) the quarterback that can lead us to the Superbowl and win it.

    5) Keeping Mario would mean a back-loaded deal that would hit us in some year eventually in the cap (meaning there will be a cap casualty anyway at some point)

    6) Losing Arian should not even be being considered and in fact though I'm sure the Texans would most probably prefer to leave him being restricted I am absolutely certain that a team with a lower draft choice would attempt to offer Arian a contract and be willing to part ways with their low first round pick forcing our hand to match the deal and make us take on the hit to the cap.

    And so my thought:

    I'm pretty sure you guys know where I'm headed to by now. I think the way to go is to just go ahead and part ways with Matt Schaub. Give him until camp to go head to head with Peyton. If Manning beats him out (which assuming he can make an NFL throw he most certainly will) you part ways with Matt Schaub via trade.

    We win by getting future draft picks. We win by upgrading the most important position. We win by not losing any key players. We win because we have a plan for the future at the QB position.

    Additionally if there is any money left over and a quality free agent WR out there we wouldn't fear signing him due to quarterback's inability to throw certain routes. Also we can most probably afford him due to dumping of big contract.

    Lastly we can truly say without a shadow of a doubt that anything less than a Superbowl would be an utter disappointment. Hell with a weak division and with this team assembled as I've mentioned anything less than 19-0 would be a disappointment to me at least. By the way I say this as a Matt Schaub fan. But I've seen enough to know that he's not a Superbowl winning elite type of QB (and if you don't believe me watch all the previous Superbowl winners in the last decade aside from the Baltimore Ravens). All of ya'lls thoughts please?
     
  2. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Contributing Member

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    As Donald Rumsfield stubbornly said, "you go to war with what you have, not what you want" (referring to a question from a soldier about upgrading the M16 rifle)

    Schaub is not elite, he is not my ideal type of QB, but he is pretty good & seasoned & gives us the best chance to get to the show considering anything else- Peyton scares me & going green ala TJ is not what is best for now when we are so close. Schaub must be on track to get healthy for this to work out tho. - crossing my fingers

    I feel Arian will reluctantly be designated as the franchise player tender from Texans management. Of course both parties want a long-term deal, but the Texans have to tag someone, and I'm sure the understanding will be a deal will follow soon if they go this route. $7.7 million is a fair starting point for a RB who is truly elite anyways.

    I have a feeling Mario could work out- the expense may be felt down the road, but the Texans window to get to the big show is now. . .nonetheless, Mario is too expensive to tag, and a dicscounted+backloaded deal is the only way- if there is a way- & could cost the Texans as stated in the next few years- maybe not a big deal if 2013 is when we all get to enjoy it, but still
     
  3. cardpire

    cardpire Member

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  4. emjohn

    emjohn Contributing Member

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    We really didn't need another Peyton Manning thread.
     
  5. Relentless

    Relentless Member

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  6. david_rocket

    david_rocket Member

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    why in the thread title you say "Our" when is your opinion?

    so when do you want to sign Peyton? If you sign him before he gets healthy, you are going to get a high-risk qb.
    If you wait till he is healthy, a lot of teams with more cap, would pay him much more.

    and with one hit manning could have a career-ending injury, and we wasted another chance with yates as our QB, and will have to look for a QB in the free agency or going with delhomme. ( I dont want that)

    and do you think yates is going to lead us to the superbowl?
    I dont think he is elite, and Im not sure he is not going to be that good, like the superbowl qb winners you mentioned.

    And nobody has done 19-0, and you think with an old and hurt Peyton, we are going to do it?
     
  7. RunninRaven

    RunninRaven Contributing Member
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    1) I don't think Peyton would sign with us if it meant having to compete with Schaub for the starting spot in training camp.

    2) If we signed Peyton Manning, I think Schaub would request a trade before training camp because he isn't interested in having to prove himself again, either.

    3) The timing of bringing in Peyton Manning is such that you pretty much will have to guess at whether he will have a full recovery. I don't want to hinge my teams Superbowl chances on a guess.

    4) Look how far we got last season with TJ Yates as QB. Schaub is better. Our defense could conceivably be better next season than it was this, with our rookies and young players having another year of experience and a full OTA/training camp to work with Mr. White Hair. I think stating that Schaub can't win a Superbowl for this team is oversimplying.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Raven Lunatic nailed most of this; but I’d like to add:
    Here’re the last 10 Super Bowl-winning QBs, excluding Dilfer, ranked by their career QB rating:

    1. Rodgers, 104.1
    2. Brady, 96.4
    3. P. Manning, 94.9
    4. Brees, 94.0
    5. Warner, 93.7
    6. Roethlisberger, 92.1
    7. Favre, 86.0
    8. Johnson, 82.5
    9. E. Manning, 82.1
    10. Elway, 79.9

    Schaub’s career QB rating is 94.0. I’m not by any means arguing Schaub is among this class of QBs – but to argue he isn’t good enough to win a Super Bowl is a head-buried-in-the-sand opinion. He’s most assuredly good enough to win a Super Bowl.

    If that is indeed the goal, then please defend any notion that Peyton Manning pushes us any closer to that happening.

    He is 9-10 in the postseason. He’s been to the playoffs 11 times, won 1 Super Bowl, two AFC championships and been one-and-done seven times. Given his talent and the team’s regular season success, it is impossible to rate that as anything beyond disappointing.

    It took him seven years to reach/win the Super Bowl; prior to, he was 2-6 in his first six trips to the postseason. Since winning the Super Bowl in 2006/7, he’s 2-3 with a Super Bowl loss.

    And now he’s 36 and trying to recover from an injury that cost him an entire season and has led to persistent whispers of his career being in jeopardy.

    And you think he gives us a better chance than Matt Schaub?
     
  9. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    This thread is now about that cold, calculated assassin known as Milhouse.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. weslinder

    weslinder Contributing Member

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    Paging Castor27. Please merge this with the one of the other stupid "Let's sign Peyton Manning", so that we avoid thinking that this is serious free agency talk.
     
  11. Big Dogzz

    Big Dogzz Member

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    I understand how threads work. However I wasn't necessarily looking at this as Peyton Manning prospective talk but rather a potential end to the Matt Schaub era and resolving our cap issues talk.

    I understand your point about Matt Schaub and it's well taken so to speak to what I was eluding to is this. I based my assumptions on Matt Schaub on what I personally saw at games. And when I say this I mean literally witnessed as compared to watching on T.V. For example the New Orleans game I went to New Orleans to watch. I was shocked how open receivers got and Matt Schaub under threw or didn't lead the ball enough to where it would have been an easy completion as compared to an interception, near interception or easy incompletion. Let alone the times we all can see on T.V the balls being underthrown not being caught on stride and instead goes down as completions but not TD's. These types of things don't get shown in the numbers.

    Listen again I stated I am a fan of Matt Schaub because many criticize him unjustly and I'm not one of those. Being a successful QB in the league is not a piece of cake. And he's done it. He is most definitely a successful and upper echelon QB. I just don't know if he can make the game on the line let's go win this thing type of throws on a consistent basis . I guess we're agreeing to disagree on that opinion.

    Again I did not start this thread on a separate thread with the mindset to get people on board to signing Peyton Manning. I started this thread because I realize we have a serious problem with our cap and a lot of BIG TIME PLAYERS we have to make BIG TIME DECISIONS on.

    Usually in deals the last year of em bring on the largest cap number. I would only assume Schaub's is no different. If this is the case my opinion would be that the evaluation process needs to start on him now. If he's deemed worthy (which it seems that most of you on this thread consider so) then he needs to be resigned now. If not a decision should be made because somebody major is going to get lost somewhere in this shuffle. I'd rather dictate that rather than let that situation dictate me.

    That is all I was trying to say. Sorry if I offended you for posting this!
     
  12. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    this is where i disagree. schaub is good enough to NOT LOSE a super bowl but he will never win you one if you know what i mean.
     
  13. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Contributing Member
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    that is such a cop out answer and really doesn't make any sense. He's done plenty in his career to make big plays in his career to win a game.

    It's almost like saying Eli really didn't win those games, but his WRs did by making amazing catches.
     
  14. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    The Texans will do well not to lose more than two free agents of their own. They don't have any money to go get other guys.
     
  15. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    not really, i think Eli CAN WIN you a super bowl. in the last SB he made some ridiculous rifle throws and his deep passes were 100% accurate. my point is that schaub can't make those throws but he doesn't have to if you have a great defense and great running game. schaub is good enough to NOT LOSE. there's nothing wrong with that.
     
  16. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    For his career, Schaub completes nearly 65% of his passes, which is an alarmingly high rate. And he is routinely among the league leaders in YPA, so he’s not by any means a dink-and-dunker.

    So that means… 35% of his passes are going to hit the turf. He’s not going to hit on every one. So I think it’s wildly disingenuous to focus on those as a means to discredit him.

    Specifically, IIRC, he had a pretty dominant 3Qs against the Saints. I know he wilted in the 4Q – but he was also playing without Arian Foster, who likely would have shouldered more of the load down the stretch.

    Still, he threw for a ton of yards, 3 TDs, the team scored 33 points… It again seems wildly disingenuous to focus on a few plays here or there he didn’t make when we have a whole bunch of plays that day he did make. EVERY QB is going to miss throws; some have plain bad days. Don’t build too high a standard here.

    We’ve been ‘round and ‘round on this throughout the forum; I think Schaub’s late-and-close #s are very good and vastly underrated. He’s done a lot of really good things where, unfortunately, too often the team has let him down. If Chris Brown could gain a yard, if Kris Brown could make routine kicks, if the 2010 defense wasn’t one of the worst in the entire history of this sport… I think we’d all view him, and this team, vastly different.

    A lot of fans are bottom line fans- a loss is a loss, and if you think W/Ls are a fair way to evaluate QBs, then, yeah – Schaub has come up short. But I don’t often look at things so black and white. I think he’s, overall, been very, very good, and I would argue he’s established himself as a guy who can handle the big moments. Unfortunately, he didn’t get a chance to do that this year but here’s hoping to a healthy recovery and another solid 2012 season for him to prove me right.
     
  17. david_rocket

    david_rocket Member

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    well last year Alex Smith and Joe Flacco were one mistake away from going to the SuperBowl.

    Do you think those two are QBs that can lead to a superbowl?

    Before last year, everybody thought Alex Smith was never going to lead the 49ers to a NFC championship game, that nobody believed the 49ers took a QB in the draft or in the free agency, becuase they believed in him.

    Alex Smith played two great playoffs games, with no interceptions or fumbles.

    So my point is that if alex smith could lead the 49ers to the superbowl ( he would've done that if those 2 fumbles didnt happen) why Matt Schaub (a much better QB) cant lead the texans to a superbowl? :confused:
     
  18. Big Dogzz

    Big Dogzz Member

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    I guess my point here that I was trying to make is that if this is case and Matt Schaub is deemed to be as such (quarterback of our future and the man deemed to be able to take this team to the Superbowl) shouldn't we just go ahead and lock him up now. A quarterback's number is usually typically one of the highest when it comes to a cap (especially in the last year of it). By signing and restructuring his contract now we would be able to save a massive amount of $$$ and hopefully be able to resign a few more of our players.

    So in essence I'm asking would you put your money where your mouth is right this instant? And of course let's remember he is coming off injury (albeit not as severe as Peyton Manning's though I'll say Peyton has been injury free far more than Matt Schaub has).

    This is a question I believe the Texans Front Office should be asking themselves instead of whether or not we should keep Mario or Arian when the obvious answer is we want to keep both.
     

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