Man...talk about a light going off in your head. Popeye's thread is great. He's been repeating over and over how CD loves the exception. And he has been telling us that there are many aggressive attempts to use it and land a big Fish. When he posted that thread, I recognized the value of the exception in helping with the Base Year Compensation, and getting disgruntled stars, but then I realized...this exception actually is THE tradeable commodity. It has value in itself. I started to write this in his thread, but it was tending to sidetrack the trade rumor. So, for those of you like me and Nolen who can't understand why we even want to trade much this summer or even use the trade exception (since not using it gives us less salary for 2001), here's are some reasons why CD will deal this summer, and probably in a big way. The Trade Exception Passes from One Team to Another The trade exception is extremely valuable, about twice as valuable as I thought when Popeye started his thread. This is because it doesn't die. When we use it, the other team is by definition taking on less salary than you. Thus, it completely converts to them!!! It indeed is a tradeable commodity. As pure illustration of this concept and how to use it, let me use yet another Duncan example--(grin and bare it for my sake one last time): 1. SA's negotiations with Duncan break down. 2. Duncan gets to dictate whether there's a Sign-n-trade or he goes FA, (rules are he must ok the sign-n-trade, i believe), 3. He says Houston is one of the places he'll OK, 4. SA doesn't see much compensation on the Rockets, but they like Rasheed Wallace (let's say), yet Duncan doesn't want to go to Portland cause it's being split up (as Popeye heard). 5. So, we trade them the exception and they then use it to get Wallace. Now, Portland has the exception to rebuild with. You see....beautiful!!!! Cato/Drew are not the trade bait; THE EXCEPTION IS, so SA can turnaround and sign Wallace for less compensation back. The exception never dies...Teams take turns using it. It might wither away (from not using all of it), or gets split up into two trades; but theoretically, it forever changes hands once created. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited May 05, 2000).]
You've been positively giddy lately, heypartner... you're frolicking like a kid again!... so much for the curmudgeon in you . Woohoo! Finished my european politics exam... come to think of it, I feel giddy too! ------------------
hp, you forgot to mention it grows. There will be teams trading players for draft picks this year. In three years, expect half the teams to have 3 mil in trade exception. Thus the trade exception value will diminish ovwer time as it becomes less scarce. ------------------ "You've got 6 fouls, use them well" -Derrick Coleman
hmmmm, I'm not quite sure that's true. It makes my head hurt thinking about it right now. Only teams under the salary cap can start a Trade Exception Coupon (let's call it), and the 15% rule can create little Coupons. Aside from that, I see no way to create a Coupon. For big salaried stars like Pippen, the 15% rule allows for a significant Coupon to pop out of the trade. And Orlando created the rest of it in the Francis trade. But, teams can't trade picks or unsigned rookies for salaried players unless they are under the cap or within 15%. So, big exceptions won't happen much. The little Coupons might collect together like bubbles, but their 1 year expiration date per team, makes that unlikely. I don't see trade exceptions becoming the norm anymore than all team salaries leveling out. In fact, my gut instinct is that big exceptions like this will be as rare as there are teams with equal amount of freedom in cap room. There might even be a mathematical relationship, but it hurts my head to think about it. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited May 05, 2000).]
I think the little "bubbles" will be used often. I see sign and trades being huge sources of trade exceptions. They will make trading easier. Say the rockets needed to take on 1 million extra in a deal to bring in Player X. Hey LAC (if under cap), Drew for a 1st rd pick in the next ten years, doesn't have to be yours. Btw , I don't think the numbers fit right, but you get the idea. If Indiana and the rockets use theirs, there will be two floating around. I expect atleast two big s/t this year involving under the cap teams. I think Orlando is bull****ting about keeping their picks. I see them trading the 13 or 10 for a 2-3 million dollar role player that will help attract The Hills and Duncans. ------------------ "You've got 6 fouls, use them well" -Derrick Coleman
heypartner, Wouldn't the salary cap exception credit coupon stay valid only if it is used in a trade with a team that is over the cap? If it was used to obtain a player from a team at or under the cap, wouldn't it cease to exist? Mango ------------------ The Serious Police are watching Donate Blood
This trade exception hurts my head (well, it won't if it creates Duncan magically ) How exactly can they be created? Team A under the cap, trades away a $2 mill player, for a pick, so they have a 2 mill exception? Would that be right? How does 15% come into play in the creation? ------------------ Rockets fans wanted at hoopsboards.com Draft Chat, NBA Chat, Team Chat, and more!
Talk about more lights flashing: This exception would especially entice Orlando. They can have a waiver, which would essentially put them even further below the cap, and get Hill. So even if we didn't get Duncan, say the scenario went down, and we ended up with Bo Outlaw (sign and trade, we "buy" him), Michael Doleac (my trade ), and the #3 pick (please Stromile!!) in exchange for KT (trade), and the #9.....yummy. It would also give perhaps LAC reason to trade (I heard Magic is looking to rebuild them into respectability) and an exception wouldn't hurt. Or Vancouver, it'd help us nab SAR. ------------------ Rockets fans wanted at hoopsboards.com Draft Chat, NBA Chat, Team Chat, and more!
Question #73 at the Coon FAQ says: "........A team receives this credit when it is over the cap and makes a trade and takes on less salary than it gives up. ..........." If a team is under the cap, doesn't seem like they get a trade exception. Mango ------------------ The Serious Police are watching Donate Blood
OK, but if we're over the cap, how do we take on less? It had something to do with picks, or was it the 3 way trade? Team A (over the cap) trades Player A (3 million) to Team B (3 million under the cap) for a draft pick ($0 salary) So in that situation, would Team A get a $3 million dollar Trade Exception "coupon"? ------------------ Rockets fans wanted at hoopsboards.com Draft Chat, NBA Chat, Team Chat, and more!
NIKE Look up the $4.5 Exception thread when it was first announced. We explain it there. In summary: 1. We took on less by trading Pippen (the 15% rule created the gap) 2. We traded for an unsigned rookie (Francis) who counted $0 (Orlando took the cap hit to balance everything cause they we under the cap)
hp, I take exception to this. ba-dom-dom noone gave me props for bringing this up in pop's 115+er! ------------------
heypartner, The trading period ends on the 16th Thursday of the season and usually falls in late Feb. (FAQ #74) I never found when it actually starts. July is always considered a "dead" month as far as contracts and trades. So it seems that the trading period would start in August. If Cato gets traded in principle at draft time, the trade won't get final approval from the league until August when everything starts again (Free Agency, more trade talk etc). 1. When is the begining date for trades? 2. Traded players would have salary cap figures calculated when the trade gets final approval, not when the trade in principle is announced at the draft? 3. If a team is over the cap and does a trade that puts them under the cap (they took on less salary), they are still entitled to a traded player exception credit/coupon? The wording on FAQ #73 does not rule that out and I started thinking that Orlando might be able to get a coupon if they time everything just right. Wouldn't that allow them to go underneath the cap to get plenty of cap room, yet gain plenty of trade exception credit to jump back over if they worked it right? If they tried to do independent transactions, they could amass credit until the first trade that put them under the salary cap. Could get a few million more if it is done right. 4. Could they work the timing of renouncing players and the amount they would count against the cap to their advantage in trying to gain this coupon credit? Don't renounce until you have done your trades that get the coupon credit and then renounce the rest to really gain the cap space. Mango ------------------ Arch Stanton lives! Donate Blood! [This message has been edited by Mango (edited May 06, 2000).]
Remember, you can only renounce free agents. I think there is a deadline on that, too. Are you saying that the draft day trades aren't really finalized? OK--i'll pass these questions on with mine and let you know. anyone else have a question to ask LC.
heypartner, Read FAQ #25, #27 and #28 and then reread my questions to you. They used the Oakley example and said he was renounced in August. Unsigned and unrenounced free agents count against the salary cap until: 1. they sign with their own team. 1. they sign with another team. 2. they are renounced Mango ------------------ Arch Stanton lives! Donate Blood! [This message has been edited by Mango (edited May 06, 2000).]
yes...I follow. And I'll get the timing issues resolved. You just made it sound like Orlando has many people to renounce. Just wanted to make sure you realized that only unsigned players (including draft picks) can be renounced.
heypartner, I am at the Bender site right now looking at Orlando player contracts. J Amechi C Atkins C Billups R Mercer B Outlaw J Taylor B Wallace M Williams How many of those have trade value? Is Orlando even at the cap with the current roster? They did take some of the Vancouver stuff in the Francis deal. Salary slots from draft picks could bring them up to cap level. What was the A Hardaway deal? Where can I find the salary figure for Orlando that would include other money being paid? Mango ------------------ Arch Stanton lives! Donate Blood! [This message has been edited by Mango (edited May 06, 2000).]
hp-I think I got it now....but which team was under the cap in the Pippen deal? or do you not have to be under the cap for an exception to be created? I hope we get some real good use out of this... ------------------ Rockets fans wanted at hoopsboards.com Draft Chat, NBA Chat, Team Chat, and more! [This message has been edited by NIKEstrad (edited May 06, 2000).]
