While posting in anther thread, I felt the need to start a thread about our defense. Remember the many posts about how our defensive players could not stay in front of the ball. Francis especially took a lot of heat for this along with Mo. Now people seem to be pointing their fingers at ward and our forwards. I feel instead of them getting beat off the dribble, they are letting/funneling the ball handler. It's part of JVG defense. As we all know, the highest percentage shot in basketball besides a layup or dunk are: pull ups and spot ups. I believe JVG's philosophy is to take away these shots by any means necessary, not even allowing attempts. In order to do that, the defender must be extremly close to the ball, and therefore impossible to not get beat off the dribble. I think we are letting all shooters beat their primary defender, in a predetermined direction, into our rotational help. By doing this, we take away the highest percentage shots, pull ups and spot ups. The ball handler is forced to: a) make a pass b) take a different shot that has a slightly lower percentage Either way, there are more chances for a screw up on offense since extra pass or a shot_on_the_run is excuted. Now this is very demanding on our defense. As you could imagine, our defense rotation must be efficient and pre-planed. There is not time to think, you just react. The defensive unit must act like a program: if this happens, then this is how we rotate. if this happens, then the 3 slows him down while the 2 slide over to ... if...then....if....then.... We could imagine how long it would take our team to perfect such a system. Before then, we are at where we are now. We take away the inital shot, but often messes up the rotation some where within the if...then..., and the offense often gets an open shot. Our defense also seems to give the center of the other team midrange shot. That is a critical part of our defensive scheme. It's almost as if our center comes out to challenge the shot, he will be out of the optimal defensive position by a couple of steps. If my theory is correct, those couple of steps means a lot say 2 passes later. Maybe this is the reason why we struggle against teams with a shooting center, think Mavs and Kings. Or a center who just happen to have a good shooting night, think the Toronto and Detroit games(this year). It would also explain our rebound woes too. Just imagine what all that rotation can do to boxing out. I have more to say, but I'm losing motivation right now. I'll add more as people reply. Watch for what am talking about tonight against the grizz. Can anyone with advanced basketball knowledge support or argue against my theory. I totally accept the fact that I could be dreaming all this up.
IMVHO, the Rockets' defensive scheme hasn't changed from last season. Van Gundy soft traps all dribble penetration and funnels it baseline. Rotation comes from the next perimeter player not involved in the soft trap. The advantage is you're extemely strong at the point of attack and against baseline penetration. The downside is you have created a 2 on 3 on the weakside and are vulnerable to weakside 3's and weakside penetration. This scheme is in part why the Rockets are at the top of the league in defensive FG% and at the bottom in defensive 3pt FG%. Observe how many weakside 3's there are where Ward, Lue, JJ or Boki are flashing past the shooter trying to obstruct their shooting hand. Even Yao must rotate to the corner when he is a weakside defender. Although he is getting better, Yao's lack of foot speed is exposed when he involved in the 2 on 3 weakside D. One of the reasons players like Lo Wright and Tony Battie have killed us in the past. They hang out on the weakside and can knock down baseline J's. Not an expert but I hope the helps your enjoyment of the game. BTW, unlike Rudy (who had his guards go under the screen) JVG has his screened defender in the PnR go over the pick. This is especially obvious if Ward and Mo T are involved. Mo T almost always flashes out and there is a (temporary) double team on the dribbler.
I kind of see what you're saying, but I don't think it's preplanned. I have yet to figure out the reason, but I believe the perimeter players on the weakside are constantly sagging off their players. They are not helping on someone important; they are just sagging down towards the free throw line. When the ball is swung to the open man, the closeout by the sagging defender allows penetration, which thereby causes the scramble and ensuing rotation. The team has gotten much better over the last few games at this, but it still doesn't seem to be the best way to be doing things..
I guess you're replying to me. If so, you're not viewing the bigger picture. The scheme is entirely preplanned. The reason that the weakside players sag the paint is that they are in a 2 guarding 3 situation. Which one of the 3 offensive players gets designated as "important"? You have to sag to cut down the passing lanes. I don't know any other way to say it...the "scheme" is to stop dribble penetration and defend the baseline. In essence, make the other teams' weakside perimeter players beat you. There's a reason those players are not on the strong side.
kaleidosky.....you arent understanding how it works...Gater nailed it(big surprise there. )...VG's defensive scheme is entirely based upon funneling the ball handler baseline. That aspect has been discussed by the Rockets comentators last season, and from the looks of things...it hasnt changed this year. Everything relies on funneling baseling and rotational help defense.. I cant really put it any better than gater did....a shame hp isnt around, he could explain it much better than I can..
If you haven't read this, re-read it. Learn it. Know it. Live it. This is a tremendous short description of JVG's defensive philosophy. The only thing I would add, and GATER touched on it, is that key to JVG's defense is proper defensive rotations. In some defenses, you can get away with mental lapses with rotations because you can make up for it with speed and athleticm. We don't have a lot of speed in the front court, so we have to play very smart when it comes to making switches and rotations defensively. If someone is wide open, it is because there was a mental lapse by someone OR because the play was designed to force that player to beat us, usually the former knowing JVG.
I havent noticed it yet but does JVG utilize a zone? I think we have practices weak zones but I dont remember us ever zoning up in a game? JVG's defensive philosophy seems to focus in on taking away the first option and I think we are tops in the league at that. However, I have never been impressed with the pack it in and let them try to shoot over us way of thinking. Since teams loaded with shooters usually have a field day against us. Funny that now with slower overall foot speed we still employ that since we are not recovering quick enough allowing wide open shots all over the place. I guess that's better than allowing layups/dunks (higher % shots) . We defend well against the first option but after that everything seems to be fair game. We seem to always get outrebounded (including last year) and give up fair too many offensive rebounds. Which is IMO a by-product of all our rotations and being out of rebounding position. I notice when Yao comes over as help defense his rotation is always late (irks me) but it also seems to always keep him out of position for defensive rebounds allowing his man to get the offensive rebounds. Isnt rebounding a factor in Defense? Causing Turnovers? Steals? Blocks? I dont think we are good at any of those other categories and for a team that prides itself on defense just seems silly. I guess im just venting .... focusing on the other teams first options but not being a complete defensive team is similar to being a team that shoots well but doesnt understand ball movement and spacing. any thoughts? J
it sounds about right but i remember last year the reason give for the 3 pt % was that Steve Sucked as a defender Rocket River that was the consistant answer last year
I think you're reaching with that. I saw this attributed many times to JVG's scheme. However the "Steve sucks at defense" crowd did come out in full force when opposing PGs did a lot of penetration and/or scored a lot of points....
no...i dont think he is reaching at all....many many times was Francis blamed for playing matador defense, when in fact it had alot to do with the funnel it to the baseline philosophy of VG's defense...in fac, and even VG admitted as much, Francis did pretty good defensively last year..nto as good as Cat, JJ or Cato...but nowhere near as bad as some here would have you believe.
Yeah, that's what I mean. I don't remember Steve getting unfairly bashed for giving up all the 3ptrs. It was mostly dribble penetration that he was singled out for. Edit: My point with Rocket River is that although Steve was unfairly criticized for a lot of things (freezing Yao out, matador D etc.) he wasn't unfairly criticized for EVERYTHING. I'm kind of getting tired of the woe is Steve, let's keep bringing up how he was mistreated on this board. Of course, on the flip side, I can't stand the guys that say, "Thank God those baby killers Steve and Cat are gone" either. Can't we all just move on.
I dunno . . I guess I can let it go but the hypocracy of it all annoys the sh*t out me You cannot say THIS IS BY DESIGN this year when you spent all Last blaming it on Steve and Cat Rocket River hatred is Hatred folx need to admit they just hated Steve, Cat and Cato and not hide behind euphemisms and thinly veil crap
three points...three answers... 1) giving up the 3s is also something I believe is part of VG's defensve schema..pack the paint, funnel penetration and allow the other teams to shoot from outside.....it is a much lower percentage shot from outside, and 9 times out of 10 the odds are with you.... tho, some here dont see that when we are getting smoked from outside, they always blame the players when in fact it seems to be the fault of the defensive system.. 2) I dont think even RR or pgab will try to tell you that SF and Co were entirely blameless...their point seem to be that in a lot of cases, they were unfairly criticized for their play....... they made mistakes, and had faults to be sure....but it seemed like folks around here were just itching to blame them for everything that went wrong......that much is a fact.... Im not one to go around and whine about how misunderstood and abused they were.....but I can see why some ppl that were fans of the players(SF an Cat in particular) would be offended at the amount of vitrol directed their way... RR, I can in fact say it is by design since I never jumped up to scream and shout about how bad our guards were...it was by design for the most part last year...as it is this year... Im not gonna try to say that some of the vitrol wasnt based in hate considering some of the things that were said(an continues to be said)...but it also isnt quite fair to say it all was.... alot of folks dont understand the technical aspects of the game, and they dont watch the game with a keen eye for other aspects of the game other than watching the ball the entire game.... therfore, when criticism of other aspects is brought up...all they have to go on is what is said by posters/friends they respect....and then they criticize without knowing whether or not the criticism is just....
Actually, you answered your own question. The best defenses are those that take away the other team's best option AND force contested outside shots. I read not long ago that the entire league shoots under 40 percent from the perimeter (FG and 3pters minus shots from within 5 feet). Under 40 percent is ridiculous and forcing teams to take lower percentage shots is what it is all about.
Thank all that's holy in this world I am not. I can't sit in front of the computer for hours at a time day after day after day afterday, unless of course I am browsing clutchfans.net. I have been trained all my life to think in very logical ways though. It has benefits but many many downsides. Life sometimes is too mathematical for me if you know what I mean. Anyway, since Gator and others seem to kind of agree that we "preplan" and "funnel" dribblers into our traps, doesn't that mean our defenders are getting beat on purpose. I think that's why I started this thread, people like Francis and Ward and Mo have been wrongly taking heat for getting "blown by".
this is the reason the Rockets have had problems with Seattle in the past. Good 3 pt shooting teams take advantage of the open 3's, or "contested" 3's they had last year to have big games against the Rockets. I thought charlie ward did an excellent job, last night, of getting up on Jason Williams in the second half, he didn't get any of the easy 3's he usually gets against the Rox.
clogging the paint to force people to shoot over you is different from give them wide open 3pt (outside) shots. I also wonder if all this funnel your man to Yao is the cause of all his foul trouble. Last year w/ Yao and Cato manning the paint it made more sense since both could challenge a shot but this year with their only being 1 shot blocker on the floor at a time (Yao or Deke) it seems less than thrilling. J
I don't think so. I think the cause of Yao's foul trouble is the referees. I am really trying not to be biased, but 34 percent of all fouls called on Yao is bull. Good point. I do see less funneling this year compared with last. Maybe JVG shares your thoughts.
First problem, Howard, he matador'd again on the fast break last night, he is really lazy sometimes. We get outnumbered on the break everytime howard is in the game. He tries to stop the pass instead of getting back. It's killing me. Second problem, open looks. But like Jeff said, letting people shoot from the outside isn't so bad. I'm ok with that as long as you don't leave the known gunner wide open because it is such a dagger to the heart. But hey, we are 3-2, so far. That's pretty decent.
