1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

One Thousand....

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by KingCheetah, Sep 7, 2004.

  1. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    59,079
    Likes Received:
    52,748
    Catastrophic success…

    U.S. Military Deaths in Iraq Pass 1,000

    U.S. Military Deaths in the Iraq Campaign Pass 1,000 With Spike in Fighting With Insurgents

    BAGHDAD, Iraq Sept. 7, 2004 — U.S. military deaths in the Iraq campaign passed the 1,000 milestone Tuesday, with more than 800 of them during the stubborn insurgency that flared after the Americans brought down Saddam Hussein and President Bush declared major combat over.

    A spike in fighting with Sunni and Shiite insurgents killed seven Americans in the Baghdad area on Tuesday, pushing the count to 1,002. That number includes 999 U.S. troops and three civilians, two working for the U.S. Army and one for the Air Force. The tally was compiled by The Associated Press based on Pentagon records and AP reporting from Iraq.

    Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld cited progress on multiple fronts in the Bush administration's global war on terrorism and said U.S. enemies should not underestimate the willingness of the American people and its coalition allies to suffer casualties in Iraq and elsewhere.

    "The progress has prompted a backlash, in effect, from those who hope that at some point we might conclude that the pain and the cost of this fight isn't worth it," Rumsfeld told a Pentagon news conference. "Well, our enemies have underestimated our country, our coalition. They have failed to understand the character of our people. And they certainly misread our commander in chief."

    The Bush administration has long linked the Iraq conflict to the war on terrorism. The Sept. 11 Commission, however, concluded that Iraq and al-Qaida did not have a "collaborative relationship" before the 2001 attacks on New York and Washington, and some have questioned to what extent foreign terror groups are involved in the anti-U.S. insurgency in Iraq.

    Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry issued a statement saying the United States joined the friends and families of those who died in mourning their loss.

    "Today marks a tragic milestone in the war in Iraq. More than one thousand of Americas sons and daughters have made the ultimate sacrifice. Our nation honors their service and joins with their families and loved ones in mourning their loss," Kerry said.

    "We must never forget the price they have paid. And we must meet our sacred obligation to all our troops to do all we can to make the right decisions in Iraq so that we can bring them home as soon as possible."

    The 1,002 figure includes deaths from hostile and non-hostile causes since the United States launched the Iraq campaign in March 2003 to topple Saddam's regime. The vast majority of U.S. deaths all but 138 came after Bush's May 1, 2003 declaration of an end to major combat operations. "Mission Accomplished," read a banner on an aircraft carrier where Bush made the announcement.

    The U.S. military has not reported overall Iraqi deaths. The Iraqi Health Ministry started counting the dead only in April when heavy fighting broke out in Fallujah and Najaf. However, conservative estimates by private groups place the Iraqi toll at at least 10,000 or 10 times the number of U.S. military deaths.

    "It is difficult to establish the right number of casualties," said Amnesty International's Middle East spokeswoman, Nicole Choueiry. She added that "it was the job of the occupation power to keep track of the numbers but the Americans failed to do so."

    The grim milestone of 1,000 American military deaths was surpassed after a surge in fighting, which has killed 16 U.S. service members in the past two days. Two soldiers died in clashes Tuesday with militiamen loyal to rebel Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Five other Americans died Tuesday in separate attacks, mostly in the Baghdad area. Seven Marines were killed Monday in a suicide car bombing north of Fallujah. Two soldiers were killed in a mortar attack Sunday.

    West of the capital, U.S. warplanes swooped low over Fallujah on Tuesday in airstrikes after seven Marines and three Iraqi soldiers were killed the day before in a car-bombing near the Sunni insurgent-controlled city.

    A group linked to Jordanian-born militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi Tawhid and Jihad posted a statement on a militant Web site claiming responsibility for the attack, describing it as "a martyr operation ... that targeted American soldiers and their mercenary apostate collaborators from the Iraqi army."

    Fighting between U.S. soldiers and al-Sadr's militiamen erupted Tuesday when U.S. officials said the cleric's gunmen fired on Americans carrying out patrols in the Sadr City district of Baghdad. Two Americans died in the fighting, U.S. officials said.

    A senior Iraqi Health Ministry official, Saad al-Amili, said 35 Iraqis were killed and 203 wounded in the Sadr City clashes. An al-Sadr spokesman, Sheik Raed al-Kadhimi, blamed "intrusive" American patrolling for provoking the fighting.

    "Our fighters have no choice but to return fire and to face the U.S. forces and helicopters pounding our houses," al-Kadhimi said in a statement.

    Late Tuesday, the militia announced a unilateral cease-fire but said it would fight back in self defense. It was unclear whether the statement had any meaning since the militia routinely defends its actions as legitimate self defense.

    U.S. Army Capt. Brian O'Malley said he was unaware of the cease-fire offer but that the area was quiet in the early evening. "We only fire when we are fired at, but we will not stop our patrols or withdraw from our positions," he said.

    At the Pentagon, Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, blamed the spike in U.S. combat deaths on an insurgency that "is becoming more sophisticated in its efforts to destabilize the country."

    "We are aggressively seeking and capturing those insurgents who are not willing to do so themselves, but are encouraging people to commit suicide attacks," Myers told reporters Tuesday. "Make no mistake, we will continue to pursue those who seek to disrupt progress in Iraq."

    During the Sadr City fighting, U.S. warplanes flew over the sprawling neighborhood home to some 2 million people. American tanks, their turrets spinning, deployed in key intersections. Ambulances with sirens wailing rushed the wounded to hospitals as plumes of heavy, black smoke rose over the mainly Shiite neighborhood.

    U.S. forces appeared to be carrying out most if not all of the fighting. No Iraqi security forces were seen during the clashes, though U.S. spokesmen talked of "multinational forces" involved in the operations, a term that sometimes includes Iraqi troops.

    Small groups of al-Sadr's al-Mahdi Army fighters pounded on the asphalt with hammers to plant mines and explosives in the streets. Fighters in their teens and early 20s trotted toward the clashes rocket-propelled grenades in hand as children scampered behind them.

    Other militiamen, rifles in hand, gathered on street corners. Fighters using rocks and tires blocked roads leading to the area. By afternoon, most stores in the neighborhood were shuttered.

    Elsewhere, a bomb exploded Tuesday near the convoy of the governor of the Baghdad region, killing two people. Gov. Ali al-Haidri escaped injury, Interior Ministry spokesman Col. Adnan Abdel Rahman said.

    ABC News
     
  2. Mulder

    Mulder Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 1999
    Messages:
    7,118
    Likes Received:
    81
    This war is becoming a miscalculation of monumental proportions. :(
     
  3. outlaw

    outlaw Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    4,496
    Likes Received:
    3
    you mean a catastrophic success
     
  4. Faos

    Faos Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2003
    Messages:
    15,370
    Likes Received:
    53
    Yes, war sucks.
     
  5. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Messages:
    23,992
    Likes Received:
    11,170
    so we are at about 1/3 of what 9/11 was?

    i wonder what the total number of american lives is that have been lost to al-queda?


    btw...im not trying to insinuate anything just so yall know. im just curious.
     
  6. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,813
    Likes Received:
    20,472
    Which is why Presidents whose name's aren't George W. Bush agree that the U.S. should never go to war unless it's the last resort. They don't go to war by choice.
     
  7. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 1999
    Messages:
    15,937
    Likes Received:
    5,491
    Good point, Robbie. I agree. We should be spending our blood and treasure on the guys who attacked us -- not the ones who didn't.
     
  8. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 1999
    Messages:
    15,937
    Likes Received:
    5,491
    Gotta break a few eggs right, Faos? You're awesome.
     
  9. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    15,630
    Likes Received:
    6,591
    1,000 is about the number of students who commit suicide each year at American Universities.

    50,000 people die in car accidents each year.


    Put it in perspective first of all. Second of all, quit gloating. You make me sick.
     
  10. Faos

    Faos Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2003
    Messages:
    15,370
    Likes Received:
    53
    Oh, you mean the same war Kerry said he would have sent troops to? Then said he would keep the troops there only 6 more months? Oh, wait, now he says they would have to stay there 4 years? Oh wait, that was yesterday. Who knows what he's thinking today. I wonder what Carvile thinks?
     
  11. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    15,630
    Likes Received:
    6,591
    Just think how few would have died had they put in for Purple Hearts every time they skinned their knee. 3 Hearts and you're out.

    And another thing -- who the heck is John Kerry to 'express mourning' for the troops. He betrayed the troops and caused them to be tortured in Vietnam. He also didn't fund their efforts in Iraq. If John Kerry had his way, our troops would have no ammo, food or body armour. That's how he voted at least.
     
  12. bnb

    bnb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Messages:
    6,992
    Likes Received:
    316
    While we mourn the loss..Faos raises a good point. Until Kerry comes out and says he would not have sent troops, he should remain silent on the death count.

    Not sure this is the place for partisan bickering...oh wait..all D&D threads are about partisan bickering...

    (and sadly, when i saw the headline on MSN i just KNEW there would be thread in here...)
     
  13. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Messages:
    23,992
    Likes Received:
    11,170

    eh...only 3k died at the towers...who cares:rolleyes:
     
  14. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    26,980
    Likes Received:
    2,365
    KingCheetah and outlaw, you two disgust me with your jabs at the President. 1000 people have died and you two feel that it is necessary to poke fun at his use of the english language. This is further proof that there are groups of you liberals who care more about damaging the President's credibility than the LIVES OF OUR TROOPS.

    Truly sickening.
     
  15. AMS

    AMS Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2003
    Messages:
    9,646
    Likes Received:
    218
    seriously, I mean what do those numbers prove? :rolleyes:
     
  16. outlaw

    outlaw Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    4,496
    Likes Received:
    3
    1000 people died because of this man's poor planning and overconfidence and he's glossing over that fact to get himself re-elected. How many funerals of those 1000 did Bush attend?
     
  17. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,813
    Likes Received:
    20,472
    No I mean the war that Kerry authorized Bush to send troops to, but trusted that like other Presidents troops would only be sent as a last resort.

    The 6 month time frame, is not based on pulling the troops out and leaving Iraq to chaos. It's based on replacing those troops with international troops. I like that plan, too bad that your side continues to distort a position rather than argue it with integrity.
     
  18. glynch

    glynch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    18,087
    Likes Received:
    3,605
    What are we fighting for?
    **************
    Citizens of the United States are a decent, fair-minded people. The only reason we tolerate what is being done in our name in Iraq is that, for us, this war exists only in the realm of metaphor. The words "war on terrorism" fall on our ears much in the way that "war on poverty" or "war on drugs" did.

    War is an abstraction in the American imagination. It lives there, cloaked in glory, as an emblem of patriotism. We show our love for our country by sending our troops abroad and then "supporting" them, no matter what. When images appear that contradict the high-flown rhetoric of war -- whether of young GIs disgracefully humiliating Iraqi prisoners or of a devastated holy city where vast fields of American-created rubble surround a shrine -- we simply do not take them in as real. Thinking of ourselves as only motivated by good intentions, we cannot fathom the possibility that we have demonized an innocent people, that what we are doing is murder on a vast scale.

    There is the single most troubling aspect of the war in Iraq. We launched it against the wicked Saddam Hussein, yet the majority of so-called "insurgents" against whom our forces are arrayed hated Hussein more than we did. We are killing people by the thousands who threaten absolutely nothing of ours.

    The boys in the Iraqi resistance are not terrorists. They are not Ba'athists. They are not jihadists -- or they weren't until we gave them reason to be. Whatever the justifications for the invasion of Iraq were a year and a half ago, why are we in this war today? And as President Bush might ask, how in the world do we "win" it?
    **************

    link
     
  19. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Messages:
    23,992
    Likes Received:
    11,170
    i dont think he is glossing over it. didn't bush admit things could have been planned better and that they underestimated the resistance in iraq?
     
  20. bnb

    bnb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Messages:
    6,992
    Likes Received:
    316
    I think you're giving Kerry too much credit. Though I doubt he could have messed it up as badly as Bush, he's said he would have sent troops given the same information Bush had.

    I'm not sure if he's simply trying to appeal to everyone and not appear 'weak' but i've been very disappointed in what Kerry has said with regards to how he would have reacted to iraq. Essentially he's refused to say he wouldn't have sent troops even if he knew then what we all know now.

    Not really sure this debate belongs in a thread that could have been about paying tribute to dead soldiers...but i guess we've ventured down that path now.
     

Share This Page