I've always maintained that the biggest difference between Kobe Bryant and all the other swingmen in the league is this: Kobe is chasing history, the others are chasing a ring. Now, a quick disclaimer: not being Kobe Bryant doesn't mean that guys like Lebron, Wade, McGrady or Pierce are chopped liver, it just means that he's on a whole other level, he's past the stage where most of those other guys still are. Over the past couple of seasons, Kobe -- not through anything he said, but rather the way he played -- has let us all know that he will settle for nothing less than being the best backcourt player to ever play the game; yes, especially that guy nicknamed "His Airness". That's where he's set his sights, everyone else is still in first gear. Doug Collins mentioned in the post-game segment that this is shaping up as a 'legendary' season for Kobe Bryant, a 'fairytale' year. He was disgruntled and wanted out before the season; a big trade was made to help him out in mid-season; he's the league's MVP; he more or less 'breezes' through competition in the playoffs on his way to a matchup with that 'other' legendary franchise -- the Celtics; his first championship as the undisputed #1 on his team; then an Olympic gold medal for good measure over the summer. If it all unfolds that way for him -- and I think it will -- then we would finally have someone who's a legitimate 'threat' to Michael Jordan as the best ever. He still wouldn't be better, and he would still have ways to go, but for the first time ever I think I will be able to stomach an argument for Kobe being 'as good as' MJ. If you're a fan of the NBA, then you can't help but root for Kobe to prove that His Airness is not "untouchable", and that modern day players can be just as great as players of yesteryear; we just have a bad habit of downplaying their greatness compared to past generations of legends.
His Airness is untouchable. Kobe had Shaq when he won those rings. If he gets one this year, Pau Gasol was his birthday present. This year may be "fairy tale" for Kobe, but it seems like it was written by someone. Interpret this how you like. Kobe is as close to Jordan as you can get, but I'd give the last shot to Michael Jordan.
I cant agree with that. Its not like Jordan was a one man basketball team...he has some very good players in his teams! Sure Kobe played on a team with a great center. You have to remember though that he was a major part of a Championship winning side at a very young age. That side was taken apart, and Kobe is back with ANOTHER group of players and he is taking them to the final again.
Great post. I agree with everything said. Kobe is chasing history and clearly the Lakers made the right choice by keeping him over Shaq. It isn't even close.
All we need now is Desert_Scar to come in here and tell us that Lebron James is better than Kobe and that Lebron should have won the MVP this season. LOL
Very good thread and OP, except for the part about rooting for Kobe. You could have left that out. I'm an NBA fan and admire greatness whether I like the player or not. Kobe has a LOT MORE to do before being on the same platform as MJ, but more seasons like this where is the best player in the NBA and leads his team to a championship and let's talk about it. The memories of how good MJ was are a little fuzzy in some minds and for some youngsters MJ is only a highlight reel legend. But his greatness still outshines Kobe by a good margin. But I'm willing to admit that Kobe is within striking distance. It isn't likely he gets there but it is possible. Tell you what: On my list of great players of all-time, I rank Kobe up there with Larry Bird. His next target is Magic Johnson. In the future when we can mostly agree Kobe has surpassed Magic, let's bring up MJ again. Is that fair?
i like kobe more than lebron, but i don't see a problem with thinking lebron is better. in fact, i think he is. we will have to see how kobe deals with the celtics, who he shot 33% against this season. lebron showed where he is weaker than kobe in the first few games and against the celtics, shooting that unbelievably horrible percentage (8 for 42?) b/c his jump shot is weak. but even then he still produced other stats. and in game 7, he showed where he is better than kobe. putting up 45/6/5 against one of the best defenses ever with all 5 celtics completely focused on him (far more than even the spurs were on kobe) was amazing. the energy and determination needed to be everything to that offense of scrubs was just amazing. he got into the lane over and over in a way even kobe can't do. what would happen if lebron had the lakers offensive talent around him? it could easily be as good as the current lakers offense. would lebron have trouble not just dominating the hell out of the ball (or if he did would it throw the rest of the lakers off?), would his jumper hold them back. would his ridiculous physical skills and being the best wing passer in the league (by far) essentially make defending them impossible? not only does lebron destroy his own man with ease, but he always sees the open guy and can make any pass there is. and he even blends scoring and passing in a way kobe has never been able to do (this playoffs is the best i've seen kobe in that regard and even then he mostly just switches between scorer and distributor and can't be both). i just know when we played cleveland, even with battier guarding lebron and scrubs around him and lebron going at regular season speed, we basically were helpless and just gave up 29/10/9 while winning both games. kobe's drive, clutchness, and scoring repertoire are unrivaled, but so are james physical attributes and passing. with either one, i think the lakers are on to the finals and i don't think someone is crazy for thinking lebron is better. now if kobe just tears up the celtics like he did bowen and the spurs, then i might change my mind, but i'll have to see it first. that celtics D is just incredible.
I don't think you can begin the discussion about Jordan until Kobe gets 5 rings because even then you still have to take into consideration that the first 3 were with Shaq. So I'm not ready to go there yet. I'm definitely rooting for him. This is flat out a joy to watch. As a fan of basketball, I'm loving this.
Stupidest argument of all time. Don't forget who Pippen, Horace Grant (in his prime) and Dennis Rodman were. Jordan has had more help than Kobe throughout his career. I've been saying Kobe was in Jordan's league prior to this season, Jordan had the comfort of ALWAYS having teammates he could trust in the 90's.
are you calling those the best 3 or just naming 3 players and the big 3 from the 80's? b/c somewhere in there some of the big 5 centers have to show up. he certainly isn't ahead of hakeem or shaq yet.
On the Kobe vs LeBron debate, it's very hard to say. LeBron plays on a much less talented team with an inferior coach while Kobe is surrounded with players and has a Hall of Fame coach. I know LeBron's jumper is shaky but his physical skills blow Kobe's away. He is asked to do a LOT more on offense and carries a much heavier burden. If LeBron were put into a sensible offensive system and had better teammates, who knows what might happen.
Not really - Jordan doesn't only have the advantage if you look at rings and accolades. He dominated statistically on a level that Kobe never has reached for multiple years. People look at T-Mac's 02-03 season and think it's amazing because of its statistical dominance. Jordan surpassed that season by a fair margin at least 4 times. Jordan's the only swing outside of Dr. J (very underrated player - also maintained a 115+ ORTG/ 100- DRTG the same season) that has ever recorded a ~40 OWS/20 DWS/30PER season. That's dominance on an out of this world level. Kobe has never come close to dominating on that level.
Lebron got to the finals all by himself last year. Stick Lebron on the Lakers with Gasol, Odom, and Fischer and they would still be the favorite to win it all.
I left the centers off on purpose. If Kobe wins a championship this year, he passes Hakeem (in my book) and is very close to on par with Shaq. I'm ready for the flames.
The stupidest of all time? Shoot a guy for having an opinion haha I just think Shaq was the best player on the championship Laker teams. He was the most dominant player in the league in that timespan. No one had an answer for him. As opposed to Jordan being the one who no one could stop during his championship run. Kobe had Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Shaq, Glen Rice, Robert Horry, etc. Right now he has Odom and Gasol. I think the talent around MJ vs Kobe throught their careers is pretty even. I just think MJ plays better than Kobe when the game's on the line. Granted it's a small margin, but I'd give the ball to MJ with the game on the line.
I think most of us agree the Bryant is the second best SG of all time. However, even if he wins a ring and a gold medal this season to put next to his MVP I don't think it puts him in conversations about him being equal or even close to MJ. You have to remember that what Kobe may do this season is something that was just an average year for Mike. Win an MVP, win a ring and of course the gold medal in '92. I think Kobe and the Lakers would have to be really spectacular for the next 4-5 years for Bryant to compare to MJ. If the Lakers rattle off 3 Championships in the next 5 years and Kobe's numbers stay something like 29/6/5 then we can talk. I think the Lakers will be good for a while but let's be honest. Kobe is 30. He just doesn't have enough basketball in him to close the huge gap between him and Mike. I like that Kobe is good enough to even start threads like this without laughter but sometimes I wonder if the constant comparisons distract us from how good Kobe has become. He is in his prime but won't be much longer. Let's remember to enjoy what we are seeing while it's still around instead of constantly thinking about how it compares to players from a decade ago.
Pippen failed when he had his chance to lead the Bulls when Jordan retired the first time, Mr. Count Me Out Of The Play If I'm Not Taking The Shot, nor did he lift the Blazers to the Finals after HE QUIT ON THE ROCKETS Horace failed too after he left the Bulls, Orlando Magic went to the Finals one time but were never heard from after that. Rodman was busy screwing up chemistry on the Spurs before he was traded to the Bulls Bucks never went to the Finals with Kukoc Steve Kerr was smart and rode Timmy's coattails to his other 2 rings The point is Jordan made his teammates raise their game to his level, or near it anyways. The feeling around the Bulls was we better give as much effort as Jordan does, or we'll always lose the argument with fans and media of why the Bulls lost. Jordan wasn't shy of letting teammates know they stink or not cutting it either. That's one thing Jordan has over Kobe, playing the mind game, either with teammates to raise their game, the media so he can manipulate things to his liking, or the refs and the whole NBA where he literally became untouchable.
