Is it just me or does anyone else feel Fran's writing style can be so annoying with all his metaphors and just continual use examples. He starts out almost all of his the same...." Like a fish in the water..like a dream..etc etc" Quit with the BS, stop trying to win an award and write the real news. Now about Hakeem! Blinebury you are an idiot. I was enraged when the Sporting News did a piece on Shaq in regards to Wilt, Russell etc. and didnt mention Hakeem. But the HOUSTON chronicle!! Hakeem's career numbers are much more well rounded on offensive/defensive, (points, rebounds, steals, blocks) The only problem with Hakeem's game is he never had a supporting cast till he was 33. Whereas Wilt didnt win anything until he hooked up with Jerry West and Bill Russell was on the All-Star team. Look at Shaq's team this year... 3 players that have averaged 20 points in this league aside from him (Harper, Kobe, Rice) plus having 6 men on the court ( a referee) instead of 5 helps too. Hakeem carried his teams. Look at the last championship teams besides the rockets in 94....San Antonio (Robinson, Duncan) Chicago (Jordan, Pippen, Rodman) Detroit (Joe Dumars, Isiah Thomas, Rodman) Celtics (Bird, McHale, Walton) Lakers (Magic, Kareem, Worthy) Philadelphia (Dr. J , Moses Malone). Hakeem was the only in this group to lead his team to a championship without another of the (Fifty greatest players)alone. He did so many things..scoring, rebounding, defense, steals, blocks, assists etc. I truly feel he is the most complete center ever. Wilt had the offense, Russell the defense...But Hakeem carried subpar teams far for years. And would have more MVP numbers had he had a secondary option. One year with a secondary player (Clyde) and they had one of the greatest title runs ever. I feel if I could have any center in his prime for a game 7 title run....Hakeem would be the runaway choice..... ------------------
Kind of off the subjuect but how many teams in '94 had 2 of the 50 on their team? I think it was only Utah (Stocton & Malone). Chicago- Pip (MJ retired) Hou- Dream Pho- Chuck NYK- Ewing SA- DRob Also not to get technical, I know Dream didn't have the supporting cast for many years but only Isiah was on the top 50 from Detroit (Dumars & Rodman I don't think was on it) and was Duncan on the team? The only real young player I remember was Shaq. Also I like Dream but I would not pick him over Wilt or Russell in their prime. Dream was the best center of the 90's but Wilt & Russell are the best of all time. Just my opinion but I still put Wilt & Russell as 2 of the 3 best regarless of position. ------------------
To see Blinebery slight Hakeem is inexcusable. To quote Larry Merchant...he should be pistol-whipped. 1st off look at Shaq's numbers this year and compare them to Dream between 1993-1996 seaons. I personally think Hakeem's MVP season was better than Shaq's and Shaqwas almost the 1st unanimous MVP. This is a good as he's gonna be. Considering he's gotten heavier each year in the NBA I see him beginning to break down in a few years. This is revisionist history at work agian. Suddenly people are beginning to forget the greatness (and I emphasize greatness) of Olajuwon ------------------
Dennis2112: I agree that Hakeem should be in the top 5 but your analogy of With and Russel is an over-simplification at best. Wilt was so dominant on both ends of the floor, they changed the rules. Think about this - who else can average (AVERAGE) 50 points and 30 rebounds for a SEASON!?! And Russell was the consumate team and tremendous at both ends of the floor. If you've never had the opportunity, you should watch some of the games they played. They were amazing players even by today's standards. As for Blinebury, he has always been uncomfortable to read. The Houston Press once said he had a "random metaphor generator" as a joke. I'm starting to believe it wasn't a joke! ------------------ "No one gets out ALIVE!" SaveOurRockets.com
Thomas Paine was full of crap. Fran Blinburry proves exactly why there shouldn't be free speach in America. I'm voting for the Monarch party in the next election just because of Fran. Is he going to hurry up and die sometime soon? Is he in his fifties? Please don't tell me he's in his fourties, he needs to die. Maybe a terrible diease...hmmm...prostates start acting up for middle aged guys. Does he smoke??? Does he get paid? Do people actually listen to what he says? ------------------ [This message has been edited by fromobile (edited June 14, 2000).]
Considering that Fran Blinebury has long been one of Hakeem Olajuwon's foremost apologists, I was shocked when I read his editorial "Shaq nears place in pivot pantheon" this morning. Blinebury considers Shaq close to the level of the "holy trio" of all-time great NBA centers, namely Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, and Kareem Abdul-Jabar. While I don't question the transcendent greatness of all 3, I do take issue with the fact that Olajuwon's name was nowhere to be found among the top tier of centers. The "holy trinity" should have been the "fantastic four" as Olajuwon belongs in that ultra elite category. Oh well, I guess in Blinebury's old age, even his memory is prone to egregious lapses. Well, he can kiss my black a#s. ------------------
Is Fran a man, or a woman? Tough question. One the one hand, Fran is a chick's name. On the other hand, not too many chicks get punched out by Jerry Glanville. But Fran does look like a very ugly woman. Then again, Fran looks like a pretty ugly man as well. I suppose we'll never know.
Et tu, Blinebury? I can't believe we're being ignored by our own journalists now. As far as girly names in Rockets Basketball, what about Rudy, Caroll and Les? Can this just be a fluke or is something at work here> ------------------ http://www.gaffordstudios.cjb.net/
Legends usually grow more after a player is gone. This hopefully will happen to Dream as well. As for my own opinion I put Wilt & Russell in a class even above Kareem. I put Kareem & Dream in the same class and I have a feeling when Shaq gets his ring that his ability (and his PR machine) will put him in that same category. However I put Wilt & Russell in their own class of centers. ------------------
I have to disagree since Wilt(all offense) and Russell(all defense with some nice offense) had no competition except for each other. Dream redefined the position and was great in both offense and defense( while playing some pretty big and mobile guys I.E. Shaq, Kareem, and Robinson ). I would say that Dream deserves to be with the top 3 of Wilt , Russell, and Dream . With Kareem coming close behind. Kareem;s numbers are great but if Dream could play 20+ years, so would Dream's. ------------------ Houston Rockets Forever!! In Rudy We Trust
Why does anyone have to feel slighted when Hakeem isn't mentioned as a top 3 center or top 10 player of all time? I would have a tough time Putting Hak in the top 3 myself. Russel and Wilt are just legendary pioneers that shaped how the game is played. Kareem was pretty damn dominant for a lot of years. It's not like Hakeem revolutionized the center position. There is still not a center that even comes close to playing like him. I don't see a center in today's game or in the distant horizon with the combination of dazzling footwork and world class explosiveness. It is very hard to argue who the more dominant center is when you compare Shaq with Hakeem. When Hakeem won the Finals MVP in 95, people always talked about how Hakeem dominated Shaq. Am I completely, because I could have sworn Shaq averaged close to 28 ppg and more rpg than Hakeem in that series? But then again, Hakeem was slightly on the decline that year. His absolute pinnacle year was the 93-94 season when his skill level and athleticism were definately at it's peak. Who cares if Shaq has 3 players who scored 20ppg or more at one point in their careers. One of those players is freakin' Ron Harper who probably hasn't averaged over 20 since the 92-93 season with the Clips. That kind of rationale would lead me to say Hakeem is an absolute scrub for not winning the NBA championship in 97 with three 20,000 point scorers(EJ, Chuck, Glide) as teammates. Duncan wasn't even in the league in 1996-1997, so he couldn't even be considered for the top 50 players of all time. I don't see why people have to get worked up when something affiliated with the Rockets is perceived to be "shafted". Fans don't need to be upset when some folks say the Rocks championships deserve astericks or Hakeem isn't the greatest player of all time or Sam Mack isn't one of the premier swing players off the bench. To quote Nixon, "Others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. Then you are utterly destroyed." And I actually kind of like Fran. ------------------
I have to disagree. It kind of depends on your definition of the word revolutionize. No, Hakeem didn't fully change the game or the way the way future centers (such as Shaq or Zo)played the position. But he did revolutionize his position and have an impact. As you said he was and is the only center ever to display the kind of amazing footwork he had. There is no other player close to his skills today. However, IF Centers of the future would smartly use Hakeem as a learning tool to footwork and spin moves, they would certainly improve themselves and the position. While Hakeems peak was the year before, to ignore his second championship run is ludicrous. Take a look at how he destroyed David Robinson. Now Robinson was MVp that year. Perhaps not as dominating as SHaq this past year, but still the best player in the league. And HAkeem schooled him. That would be like someone taking Shaq to school this year. WHy do we get in a huffy when someone from the Rockets who deserves more credit is shafted. Well, cause were Rockets fans through and through and we feel personally hurt and offended for Hakeem and the city. ESPECIALLY when it is one of our own reporters. IF you read the article you will inderstand. IT completely disregards Hakeems place in the history books, moving Shaq right ahead of him. ITs ridiculous! ------------------ When I die I want to go peacefully like my grandfather. Not screaming like the passengers in the back seat! [This message has been edited by JayZ750 (edited June 15, 2000).]
My basketball watching days don't go back all that far, so I'd like to ask a question to you guys who actually watched the game back when Russell and Wilt played: If Olajuwan played in the same era as Russell, wouldn't he have been just as dominant, if not more? Defense was Russell's calling card, but there was not a better defensive player in Hakeem's playing days, a time when I'm assuming there were a lot better athletes. I think it goes without saying that Olajuwan was better offensively, so I'm curious if Russell isn't just considered better because he dominated during a weaker era. ------------------
Why Hakeem should at least be part of the discussion of the best centers of all-time: 1. He is the only player to win MVP, Defensive Player of the Year, and Finals MVP in the same year (right?). 2. He is the all time leader in blocked shots, one of the most important statistical categories for a center. (This includes Kareem, who played until he was 52.) 3. The 1995 Western Conference Finals. 4. He is in the top 10 all-time for steals in a career. As a center! 5. The man had a crossover dribble. As a center!!!! In summary, Hakeem dominated over the long-term, produced some of the finest individual seasons in recent NBA history, and did things no other center has done before or since. And he won multiple championships. ------------------
What were Wilt or Bill like? I'm not that old to remember. ------------------ I'm tha hip hop attracta, rapper slash acta, right back at cha!
Jeff, didn't Chamberlain consistently play against midgets? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it was common practice in those days for a single player to be double- and triple-teamed. Watching Shaq-fool play today reminds me of what Wilt must have been like -- overpowering everybody with sheer size and strength. As far as Russell, his statistics just aren't that good. His FG% and PPG average are just flat out bad. I don't think these guys would be averaging 20-30 rebounds a game had they not been physically so head and shoulders above everyone else. To me, Charles Barkley is the best rebounder of all-time, not someone who didn't even have to jump to get a rebound. Not impressive to me. If you had to have someone take a game-winning shot, would it be Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, or Hakeem Olajuwon? Shaquille O'neal should not even be considered at this point because he does not dominate on the defensive end. Take a look at these numbers: Career playoff PPG Bill Russell 16.2 Wilt Chamberlain 22.5 Kareem Abdul-Jabaar 24.3 Hakeem Olajuwon 26.6 ------------------ Too-Rye-Aye!
Thank you Freak, that is exactly my point. I do not want to demean what Wilt and Russell did but they did not have the physical competition that Dream had to deal. Dream was always up against some large bodies and still seem to get the job done at both ends of the floor. While Wilt was unstoppable and did some amazing things. Defense was not his strong suit(didn't they allow zone defense back then?). Imagine how many block Dream would have gotten if he could just camp out under the basket. Russell played with some of the greatest players ever. Dream should definitely comsidered among the best. 1.Wilt 2.Dream 3.Russell 4.Kareem 1,2,& 3 are very close with 4 coming in behind...just my opinion. ------------------ Houston Rockets Forever!! In Rudy We Trust
Can anyone imagine Wilt, Bill, Kareem or Shaq running down Kevin Johnson? Would any of those four have been able to get out on Starks and deflect the shot? With all due respect to Bill, Hakeem is the standard by which defensive centers should be measured. Of course he belongs in the pantheon of centers. His legend will grow. ------------------ [This message has been edited by rimrocker (edited June 15, 2000).]
