Ok. Maybe Some People Just Don't Get It.

nope...

 

IMO, Jonathan Feigen said it best in his Feb 8th article:

"The tension between them might be real, but it's also irrelevant. Van Gundy's coaching style does not demand that he can be anyone's buddy. And Francis can be occasionally irresponsible, but he's not rebellious.

Rockets players gritted their teeth and rolled their eyes for a few days after Francis missed or skipped the team's flight to Phoenix. But they have pretty much blown off the whole incident and its fallout. They seemed to find all the attention and debate it generated kind of stupid."

 

Testify Almooo...

Im with ya man..Alot of folks here either dont want to understand what you said...or cant.

Either way..it doesnt matter what they want...our opinions mean nothing to what actually happens with the team...they will either get it together or they wont...if they dont..management will find people that will...

 

Agreed, but if SF can't or won't adapt, he needs to go.

DD

 

Not saying fire him, but if Van Gundy coached anywhere but NY he would be just another coach. He never won the finals, he only got there once with the highest payroll in the worst conference. No disrespect, but for those of us who haven't annointed this guy as a savior his act does wear thin.

 

I agree with you - but remember that game you played as a kid ... 'one of these things is not like the other'

First - JVG has no championships.

Second - I think that he's all stick and no carrot. The other coaches mentioned use stick and carrot.

And I'm not knocking him - I like him and the job he's done - and he does a great job with X's and O's and with the stick - but can you imagine JVG as a motivational speaker?

He remains a risk for buring out himself and his players.

That's something maybe he will change here in Houston - but it remains to be seen.

M.

 

At one point in time...those coaches also did not have any championships....no?
Did they use their tough methods of coaching before they won any?

What this comoparison says to me is that it can be effective in time...holding no championships against him cause he didnt win it with the bunch of overachievers in NY isnt necessarily fair.

Im willing to give VG some time to prove he can get this ship on the right course.

 

I'm not so sure that Francis isn't willing to adapt.

He's just having problems with relinquishing the role he's had in past years. Personally, I think that's very natural and something that everyone in his position would do.

Feigan hit it perfectly, IMO.

 

bottomline:

Reality Check:

Steve is a great basketball athlete and a bit immature and, but lets be real about his skills. His assist to turnover ratio is the worse out of all point guards in the league and frankly he is not in the top 75 players in the league in this category and I dare say probably not in the top 100. The turnover ration alone does not spell doom, but combine it with any inconsistencies in our team and it spells disaster.

Even the spurs point guards, who too have a horrible Assist to turnover ration as a team, have Tony Parker in the top 20. When you combine this poor stat with a funk Steve is in this year it equals inconsistency since he handles the ball so much. This team cannot afford to have a bad or average shooting night and expect to win consistently, because on the whole Steve Francis is not a good point guard--though a great NBA athlete. There in lies the inconsistency. We can hold teams down, but cannot score consistently because we turn the ball over way to much and have no consistent direction on the court.

Granted, the Rockets had a poor ATR in the championship years too, but not even to this degree. Not many championships teams have point guards who dip this low in the assist to turnover category.....

We do not have to change the team and trade Stevie, but by Year 3 under JVG they had better sure up the shooting and big men area if you want this team to make it all the way, because the odds of them doing so under the current team chemistry and performance are really not good.

 

I didn't want to repeat the whole post; but I couldn't agree more. This is my take exactly. When Francis was the darling of the board, my view of him as a player was the same. It has not changed. The early scouting reports on Francis (posted on this board) were prophetic-on target. He is not the future of the Rockets; never was. Time for a young Mark Jackson, playmaker, past-first kind of pt with a consistent outside jumper to break down the zones. Hype drives NBA ad campaigns, but substance wins championships. The Rockets need to move the "hype" players and bring in the "substance" players. Otherwise, what you see is what you get.

 

I think that this may be as accurate a statement that's been posted to date. He's right. When you look at it, there's always a carrot. There's always the proverbial pat on the ass from time to time. These 'pats' usually occur in the media or print, as well as behind closed doors.

I haven't heard JVG dangle a carrot in a while. I don't know, maybe "We didn't have breakfast" was a carrot. Maybe he asked him to dinner later that night. Who knows...

 

Before someone asks how you discern a substance player from a hype player, well, they both might be great athletes, very gifted, fast, strong, etc. The difference is from the shoulders up. For example, out of four trips to the basket Francis might make a spectacular dunk and miss three easy lay-ups by trying to double-pump dipsey doodle them in; while Tim Duncan makes one spectacular dunk and three easy lay-ups. Difference:6pts. Francis may attempt four highlight reel passes. Result: one good, three turnovers. Duncan makes four fundamentally sound passes. Little differences make Big Differences, like championships and no playoffs.

 

Thanks Almu. One of the top posts of the year.

I agree and don't think it is as much a question of Steve not "wanting" to adapt but rather him lacking the "basketball IQ" to do it as quickly and successfully as we all want.

Kind of like the student who studies and applies himself as much as he possibly can for a particular subject but still only can manage a C+. It's not a lack of trying.

 

I wouldn't exactly say that the Rockets are soft now. They may have been soft at the end of last year, but Van Gundy's been here for a little while. They are definitely not as soft as they used to be. They just aren't as hard as they need to be yet.

The criticism will go on until he wins a championship just like the criticism of Francis will go on until he wins a championship.

The difference between a coach like Van Gundy and a coach like Parcells is that Parcells has proven that he can consistently get his teams to the big dance and win the game.............and on top of it, his players like him because he proves to him that he really cares for them. So the players respond to him much more postively.

It goes back to my chief complaint about Van Gundy at this time. He does not give his players enough positive reinforcement. He's having a difficult time getting them to play for him. Plus, there is only 12 spots on the NBA roster, not 50 or so like in the NFL. In the NBA, you have to have top talent to win, you have to have a superstar or two or three to win it all. In the NFL, you can get by with tremendous teamwork and maybe 1 or 2 star players out of the 50. Just look at the Patriots. And most of the time, those players are the stars because they are great at working in the particular system the coach has installed.

But that won't work in the NBA. The NBA is a different structure. In the NBA, you have to have superstar talent to win or have a chance at winning consistently. In the NBA, a great, championship winning head coach has to be a very good psychologist. He has to get in his player's heads. He has to get the players to play for him. Not just bench them when they are screwing up. And that is the area of Van Gundy's coaching that lacks at this point. He can kick mediocre talent around and make them outperform, but can he motivate the better players on the team to play the team game and elevate their game. Or is he just gonna bench and trade everybody that doesn't do it his way? If he does that, he will wind up with 12 average talent players who will outplay their talent level every year, but will come up short in the playoffs every year.

The real reason that the Rockets won 2 championships here was because of Rudy's relationship with Hakeem. Before Rudy came here, Hakeem was a selfish superstar. Remember him pushing around Sleepy Floyd amongst others. The Rockets would have never won a championship if Rudy hadn't gotten through to Hakeem and got Hakeem to play the team game. All the while, Rudy built Hakeem up and made him the dominant presence and the much bally hooed superstar because Hakeem's skills demanded it. Rudy got Hakeem to trust his teammates, to pass out of the double team, to the wide open Cassell, Horry, Smith, or whoever else was standing at the 3 point line with the open shot.

So, we can gripe about Rudy and his lack of discipline, it is all true. But he did win 2 championships. He had the psychological skills to take superstar talent and work it with the team. Look at the great coaches that win championships in the NBA. They all have superstar talent and they know how to work that talent.

In time, Van Gundy may learn this skill and be able to become a championship coach. As of yet, he hasn't. Remember, we are talking about more than Steve here. Van Gundy hasn't done anything to make Yao a more dominating player either. You could even make a case that Yao has in fact, regressed this season. And while you can make the definite case that Steve has not lived up to his responsibilities, it is hard for you to make the case that Yao and Cat haven't put in the time and effort to make this team better.

Look at the coaches you mentioned above: Gundy, Riley, Parcells, Gibbs, Phil Jackson, and Mike K at Duke. What separates Van Gundy from ALL of the rest? 1. They have all won championships, Van Gundy hasn't. 2. They were able to get their superstars as well as the rest of the team to like them and work for them even while they were busting their players tails in practice for 3+ hours, Van Gundy hasn't. When Van Gundy creates the kind of atmosphere that players are willing to play for him, even when he busts their tails, because they like him and believe in him, then he will move to the championship level. Forget the Knicks, that was a fluke. Everybody knows it. They went further then they should have because Van Gundy got mediocre talent to outperform. We don't want a team of mediocre talent in Houston that outperforms because it isn't good enough. It isn't good enough to compete for a championship year after year. That's why Van Gundy left NY. He knew the talent wasn't good enough to consistently compete.

I agree with you. We have to give this coach and these players some time. There could be nothing worse right now than the Rockets getting rid of Van Gundy and letting the inmates run the asylum. And there also could be nothing worse than trading away some of our superstar talent for mediocre talent. This year will have to play itself out and by the end of it we should know a lot more about what needs to be done.

Hopefully, Steve will grow up. And hopefully Van Gundy will get this team to really bust their tails for him. But if Steve doesn't come around in the next few months, something has to be done. But I sure hope we get some superstar talent back for him because anything less, and the Rockets are the losers. And I sure hope in the next few months, that Van Gundy learns the psychological aspect of the game and gets players to play the team game because they really want to win and be successful, not because he is blowing in their ear threatening to make them sit the bench or run for 3 hours after the game.

 

I think people forget that championship teams aren't built overnight. (With the possible exception of the Spurs' first title shortly after adding Duncacn.)

Especially when a coaching change is invovled, it takes time for players to adjust to the new system. It also takes time for a coach to evaluate players and bring in his type of guy.

Having said that, anything short of the playoffs this year is unacceptable. Anything less than the 6th seed is a huge disappointment.

 

Analysis (in other words my opinion)

Van Gundy- Demands intensity, esp. defensively, and smart basketball on the offensive end. Never sees a reason to celebrate unless the effort is all out, the execution smart and the result a win. Does not sugar coat anything and withholds praise for very deserving times (at least in his mind) He is very good X's and O's and manages the game very well. Not easily pleased. Best word to describe him- demanding.

Steve Francis- Likes to go one on one. Very athletic. Very hard to defend if he is hitting his shot. Not good at running the break and an average passer. If he drives to the basket and gets fouls called can break down a defense. He does not always play smart resulting in poor decisions and hign # of TO's. Has improved his defense alot this year, but is shooting poorly. Could average 25+ a game if he shot a high %.

Yao Ming- Good shooter for a big man. Has a good shot facing the basket but struggles with the jump hook. When he plays with energy he can dominate the paint against most centers. Struggles still with quick centers who can front him. Is a good defender except when he reacts slowly and doesn't move his feet. Could become a dominant player if he can maintain more energy and max effort throughout a game. Must get a signature move or greatly imporve the jump hook. Also must reduce careless turnovers created by not being aggressive in the lane.

I don't think these 3 are too far from being able to improve. But if they don't we are in for more dissappointment.

I like the supporting cast of Mobley, Taylor, Cato, Jackson, etc.

Its the big 3 mentioned above that will either take us to the next level or we will have to make changes.

This year is critical to the future of this team, Van Gundy said it from the beginning: its no longer about potential but delivering in the playoffs.

 

Great entries.. thats why I like coming to this site.

J

 

Nothing like beating a few weak teams (and one of these, Da Bulls, just barely) to give us all a different perspective.

I hope these guys can make it all work together but it seems so seldom that Steve and Yao play great at the same time.

Good posts, though.