not really in any order within the groupings: First Tier: Russell (no explanation needed) Chamberlain (same here) Jabbar (same here) Olajuwon (not as great for as long as the other 3, but worthy nonetheless) O'Neal (you may hate his game, but you can't argue with results. Most unstoppable force in basketball.) Second Tier Moses Malone (he's borderline top tier) Willis Reed (he won some titles, made his legacy in that one game) David Robinson (very good for many years, couldn't do it as the Man) Bill Walton (would have been great, career cut short) Dave Cowens (overachiever and underappreciated) George Mikan (dominated in the early days, but come on, those were the early days) Third Tier Patrick Ewing (very good, never great) Nate Thurmond (greate rebounder) Bob Lanier (pretty good) Robert Parish (a real good 3rd option)
Where does Tim Duncan fall into your list? And please, don't tell me he is a 7'0" bask to the basket PF. Duncan is a center. I would have to say that Duncan is getting VERY close to your first tier group.
Well, I want to call him a C too, but he's the one who always claims he is not a center so I will give him the benefit of the doubt. He would be up at Tier 2 at least, probably move up to 1 by the end of his career, if he were an actual Center and not a pseudo center. The thing he lacks, is the wow factor, not in terms of flash, because Shaq isn't really flashy, but in terms of something that makes you want to stnad up and say "I've never seen anybody do that kind of thing in the NBA before". While I didn't see it first hand, Russell, Chamberlain, and Jabbar (though less so) certainly had it. Hakeem had it, Shaq had/has it. However, if he can be consistently great for a long time (a la Jabbar, to an extent) that could overcome this.
Why wait? If you did that then you might as well do that for O'Neal, Russell, Walton, Moses, etc etc. Most dominant big men needs another player that helps him and honestly that player was Robinson and not Parker or Rose etc. His career, statistically, should already put him in the same level as Ewing. And then add on his 2 rings, he's above Ewing.
Wow factor is created by the player's personality and not by their skill...and i'm sorry but i've watched enough bill russell game clips to know that he didn't have 'wow factor'.
Sam, I think your argument for Shaq applies to Duncan here. You just can't argue with the results. Yes, he doesn't wow you like the other guys in the first tier but he's been every bit effective. Maybe the wow factor works to his benefit in the long term. Like a great pitcher with a smooth delivery, Duncan's game isn't based on unbelievable athletics, but good fundamentals. In other words, he will continue to put up similar numbers even as his athleticism fades (unlike Robinson, Hakeem, and eventually, Shaq). The guy maybe now the most unstoppable force in bball. Another indication of his greatness: Duncan could also be in the first tier for both all-time centers and all-time power forwards.
How was last night for wow factor? 21 pts, 20 boards, 10 dimes, and 8 blocks!!!!!!!!!! That's a triple double and 2 blocks from a quadruple double in a championship series game clincher. I've never seen that before. (That I can recall)
I don't view Duncan as a center. Currently, all his success has been with him as a PF. Until he actually plays center and has success at the 5, then he will always be viewed as a PF.
I think beating Chamberlain like a stray cat over the years was my wow thing for him, plus being a player coach etc. I'm sure he had some defensive sequences that were truly amazing. BUt you're right hes a little more whitebread than the rest.
I guess, but with Shaq, you always said, "HOw the hell can you stop him, there's simply nothing you can do, he's just too big and strong" With Duncan, he's got moments of greatness, but even on this very playoff run, there's moments where he goes into "Hangdog look-missed FT mode", and you never know when he's going to slip into it. I think the distincition is this: Sometimes Duncan's bankshots miss. Shaq's dunks didn't. And as far as Center/Forward thing goes, its all semantics, but for the sake of consistency, you can be all time great at one or the other but not both, in my opinion. I think he is clearly the best PF of all time pretty easily though it that's what you want to call him. Karl the Chokeman, Barkley, and Bob Petit were also real good, and depending on what you classify Elvin Hayes or Wes Unseld as, they were real good too. But nobody is really in his league.
The "wow" factor could be something that makes you remember the player. Jabber had the sky hook, Dream had the Dream Shake, Shaq a total power slam move, etc. Duncan likes the turn around off the glass. To me a wow factor is what sets each one apart.
Everyone of those guys is First Tier, but some are more First Tier than others. Nate Thurmond was great. In today's NBA he would battle Shaq pretty even. He did with Wilt after the trade. Willis, one of my all time favorites, and Bob Lanier were clones. Excellent talents, perhaps less First Tier than the others. Mo needs to be in the pantheon. BTW - the origninal descritors were pretty fair. Good job.
How can you not to put Yao Ming in the first tier????? That is so biased and immoral!!!! People, we have a Yao hater here. He is an evil person!!! Logic is defied, morality is destroyed, justice is violated!!!
Here is the right rank: Holy tier: Yao Ming his Magesty and Holiness First tier: Second tier: Third tier:Colin Pine Four tier: Fifth tier: Sixth tier: Bill, Wilt, Kareem and company (their full names don't deserve to be mentioned with Yao Ming's presence).
you're forgetting two largely important names that helped mold the NBA...... where the heck are Bradley and Mutombo in that list?
Yeah, he was pretty good and I've always heard such, but I just don't know that much about his game to put him that high. Second-Third tier is kind of a crapshoot.
Yeah, where is the love for Olowokandi (who symbolize the word "center"), Gasol (who is the bridge between the NBA and the entire Europe) and Wang Zhizhi (who represents the 8 thousand years of Eastern basketball).
