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Oil, Again

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MadMax, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    Couldn't search far enough back to retrieve the earlier thread I started regarding this. But it's beginning. Actually, it's already begun. Ridiculous fear fueling higher numbers...and then...POP. We've done all this before, and we'll do it again. Not good for Houston (depending on who you ask).

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2003257679_oilconsumers14.html

    Analyst predicts plunge in gas prices
    By Kevin G. Hall

    McClatchy Newspapers

    WASHINGTON — The recent sharp drop in the global price of crude oil could mark the start of a massive sell-off that returns gasoline prices to lows not seen since the late 1990s — perhaps as low as $1.15 a gallon.

    "All the hurricane flags are flying" in oil markets, said Philip Verleger, a noted energy consultant who was a lone voice several years ago in warning that oil prices would soar. Now, he says, they appear to be poised for a dramatic plunge.

    Crude-oil prices have fallen about $14, or roughly 17 percent, from their July 14 peak of $78.40. After falling seven straight days, they rose slightly Wednesday in trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange, to $63.97, partly in reaction to a government report showing fuel inventories a bit lower than expected. But the overall price drop is expected to continue, and prices could fall much more in the weeks and months ahead.

    Here's why:

    For most of the past two years, oil prices have risen because the world's oil producers have struggled to keep pace with growing demand, particularly from China and India. Spare oil-production capacity grew so tight that market players feared that any disruption to oil production could create shortages.

    Fear of disruption focused on fighting in Nigeria, escalating tensions over Iran's nuclear program, violence between Israel and Lebanon that might spread to oil-producing neighbors, and the prospect that hurricanes might topple oil facilities in the Gulf of Mexico.

    Oil traders bet that such worrisome developments would drive up the future price of oil. Oil is traded in contracts for future delivery, and companies that take physical delivery of oil are just a small part of total trading. Large pension and commodities funds are the big traders and they're seeking profits. They've sunk $105 billion or more into oil futures in recent years, according to Verleger. Their bets that oil prices would rise in the future bid up the price of oil.

    That, in turn, led users of oil to create stockpiles as cushions against supply disruptions and even higher future prices. Now inventories of oil are approaching 1990 levels.

    But many of the conditions that drove investors to bid up oil prices are ebbing. Tensions over Israel, Lebanon and Nigeria are easing. The hurricane season has presented no threat so far to the Gulf of Mexico. The U.S. peak summer driving season is over, so gasoline demand is falling.

    With fear of supply disruptions ebbing, oil prices began sliding. With oil inventories high, refiners that turn oil into gasoline are expected to cut production. As refiners cut production, oil companies increasingly risk getting stuck with excess oil supplies. There's already anecdotal evidence of oil companies chartering tankers to store excess oil.

    All this is turning financial markets increasingly bearish on oil.

    "If we continue to build inventories, and if we have a warm winter like we had last winter, you could see a large fall in the price of oil," said Gary Pokoik, who manages Hedge Ventures Energy in Los Angeles, an energy hedge fund. "I think there is still a lot of risk in the market."

    As it stands now, the recent oil-price slump has brought the national average for a gallon of unleaded gasoline down to $2.59, according to the AAA motor club. In the Seattle area, prices per gallon have fallen to $2.856 currently from $3.071 a month ago, a decline of 7 percent, according to AAA.

    Should oil traders fear that this downward price spiral will get worse and run for the exits by selling off their futures contracts, Verleger said, it's not unthinkable that oil prices could return to $15 or less a barrel, at least temporarily. That could mean gasoline prices as low as $1.15 per gallon.

    Other experts won't guess at a floor price, but they agree that a race to the bottom could break out.

    "The market may test levels here that are too low to be sustained," said Clay Seigle, an analyst at Cambridge Energy Research Associates, a consultancy in Boston.

    On Monday, the oil-producing cartel OPEC hinted that if prices fall precipitously, OPEC members would cut production to lift them. But that would take time.

    "That takes six to nine months. If we don't have a really cold winter here [creating a demand for oil], prices will fall. Literally, you don't know where the floor is," Verleger said. "In a market like this, if things start falling ... prices could take you back to the 1999 levels. It has nothing to do with production."
     
  2. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Contributing Member

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    I thought a huge reason why gas prices have fallen is because the EPA requires stricter (cleaner) burning gas during peak driving months (Summer) and now that these months are dwindling away that turns into cheaper gas because it is cheaper to make. I could be wrong though.
     
  3. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    bascially, none of the fears that drove up prices have actually happened. no terrorist attack on some pipeline, no hurricaine shutting down wells, no shortages at the pump. there is nothing to keep these prices up.

    shocking,

    the government really needs to get a handle on these oil traders because if prices drop enough its gonna have economic consequences. jobs lost, especially in the houston area.
     
  4. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    AMEN!!!!!

    is this the most irrational market in the world? it's gotta be right, because the stakes are so high. it's literally making decisions on fears built upon other fears that aren't reality.

    this job loss you're talking about is exactly what happened before. price of oil goes wayyyyy up. then plummets. and everything craters. s&l institutions fall apart. local economy crumbles. because it's all built on irrational fear.
     
  5. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Max, you certainly predicted this, so if this plays out the way you think, kudos to you. Personally, and it may be my cynicism coming out, I think the drop in oil prices is to a large degree political. The oil companies have the best friend in the White House that they have ever had. The GOP in Congress has also been amazingly pro-oil, following the Bush/Cheney lead. In fact, I would argue that they have recieved far more largess from the group in power than they could have imagined in their wildest fantasies.

    In my opinion, a large component of the price drop has to do with trying to help the GOP in the November elections. After the elections, and in time for the heating oil season, and the natural gas season down here, you will see prices going back up. I don't think we'll see prices close to what was predicted in the article you posted. Time will tell, of course.



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
  6. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    you'll be paying less than $2/gallon by Christmas. :)
     
  7. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    $20 dollar tip jar bet? :)



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
  8. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    no, because if i'm wrong i'll need it to buy more gas. you'd just be using your gas savings to "fuel" the bet. :D
     
  9. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Contributing Member

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    The price of gas will bounce back up to near $3.00 a gallon.....

    .....between election day and the end of the year.

    :(
     
  10. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Ok, lol! :D



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
  11. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    You guys are paranoid. No one controls the price of oil. It is traded on the open market and there are thousands of players. The government doesn't need to control these traders any more than it needs to control stock traders.
     
  12. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    no thats just how markets work. they price in events before they happen. that's how it has been and that's how it will continue to be. furthermore, everyone and there mother in the financial markets was bullish on oil and all other commodities forever. a lot of these guys are getting stung because of the herd mentality that was out there since everyone piled into commodities.
     
  13. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    i know. i agree. it just seems to me that the oil market is the least rational. maybe that's just because it's the commodity market i'm most familiar with.

    and as long as interest rates are rising with fed help, why would you stay in commodities....RIGHT??? (or am i missing something there?)
     
  14. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    just like they didn't need to control the natural gas traders?
     
  15. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    ready for this??? ....i think we should consider socializing it in the US. i think we should consider serious government control. it fuels EVERYTHING here. without it, our economy goes into the dark ages. i think as long as we're this dependent on it, you have to make it affordable for everyone.

    i'm a commie, i know.
     
  16. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    well the main reason you would stay in oil/commodities is the fact that china and india are still growing and the world is going to need to produce an extra 3+ million barrels a day in the next 2 years to keep pace. further OPEC has already stated that they are concerned about the drop in oil prices meaning they will tighten things up. they will not let oil drop past 45.

    let's not forget how high natural gas spiked worse than oil and the same thing with copper and so on. the markets got ahead of themselves because of too much hype.
     
  17. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    how does socializing it here even matter? it's a world commodity. we don't control opec.
     
  18. rhester

    rhester Contributing Member

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    I drive about 850 miles a week...

    if the price keeps dropping I can start playing golf again ;)

    whatever is doing it - drive them prices down down down :D
     
  19. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    No, they shouldn't. Just because someone does something illegal doesn't mean the market they trade should be controlled. Take electricity for example. Enron committed all types of illegal acts. But are we re-regulating the power industry? No, people know better.
     
  20. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    can someone explain something to me?

    why is oil a commodity in the first place. is it because it comes out the ground. I understand why agricultural products are commodities. why is oil? most of the oil seems to produced by big companies, why does it have to go through a process of being traded. why doesn't it go straight to refiners?
     

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