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[OFFICIAL] Russell Westbrook as a Washington Wizard

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Os Trigonum, Dec 3, 2020.

  1. Bearded13

    Bearded13 Member

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    His assists are also fraudulent:



    And about his lack of defense which allows him to get uncontested def rebounds:

    https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/is...ing-his-defender-stats-say-he-is-01dmny0ph0z4

     
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  2. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    No one cares because by now we’re up to about 90% of basketball consciousness who understand it’s all just a mirage.

    It doesn’t help you win. Awesome for cutting together high light packages, but terrible for a teams chances of winning anything serious.

    He had a small window years ago where his ultra athleticism was able to make him just efficient enough that he wasn’t hurting his teams, but we said goodbye to those days long ago.

    I will remember him along Rose as the two most undeserving MVPs of my lifetime.

    And yes. He should look back at his career and be ashamed that someone who was so bad at shooting, shot the ball that much. Him and Melo will undoubtedly go down as the highest volume, lowest efficiency chuckers of the modern era.
     
  3. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    I don't know about that, people still talk a lot about guys that get triple doubles. Dude, it's a cool historical fact. It'll always be brought up that Russ averaged a triple double along with Big O and that no one else did. No one is saying he should be worshipped for it but it's something only two players have ever done.

    Russ was a super successful basketball player, he doesn't have to be ashamed of anything. Tyrus Thomas should be ashamed, Anthony Bennet, actual guys that came into the NBA and bust and did nothing with their chance at it but not actual first ballot HOF ball players that achieved everything a player can achieve but a championship.

    If the man says he's happy and he has nothing to be ashamed of and you're going "YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED" kind of indicates some irrational hate you have against the man. He's happy with his life, good for him, he made millions, he has every award a player can have except for Finals MVP and Championship. He'll always be remembered as a great player and he does have a legacy no matter how bad you want him to be remembered as some scrub.

    He wasn't. He was a dude that dominated in the NBA for a period of time and few people in the world can say that.
     
  4. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    No One will remember if his assists and rebounds were fraud in 5 yrs

    Rocket River
     
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  5. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    I don’t hate him. I hate Westbrook the basketball player. And have never EVER said he was a scrub for his entire career. I have completely acknowledged the few years where he was really, really good. A long time ago.

    His career is unbelievably over rated. His triple doubles were mostly empty inefficient stat chasing. And his stubbornness cost hIm a chance at being remembered as a true great. His MVP was undeserved and he will go down without any shadow of a doubt as one of if not THE most inefficient/high volume scoring players in NBA history.(Arguably the most harmful type of player if trying to build a winner)

    He clearly hurdled the low bar of being a basketball hall of famer. But as time has gone on more and more people are realizing they vastly over rated him.
     
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  6. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Pretty much, context are lost as time goes on. No one remembers Wilt and if his stats were empty, just that he had those stats. At the end of the day Russ is in an exclusive club.

    Saying he should be ashamed of his career is way over the top though man, like how can you tell another man what they should and shouldn't be ashamed of? If I had Russ' career, one of the best at doing whatever I did, I'd be proud of it. F soemone else telling me I shouldn't be.

    Calling things over and underrated is overrated. Fact is he'll be a first ballot HOF, rare club as an MVP winner, a memorable career, averaged a triple double, and people won't care about how empty his stats are 30 years from now.

    The opposite will actually happen as it ALWAYS does. When he retires people will realize they missed watching him play. This always happens for every player, their legacy gets better as time goes on (unless they've done something morally wrong) not worse. At the end of the day people will look back at him as an exciting player to watch that did some unique things and dominated in the NBA during his prime.
     
  7. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    Again things I never said: He should be ashamed of his career.

    What I did say: He should be ashamed he shot so many times for such a bad shooter
     
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  8. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Yeah, saying he should look back at his career and say he should be ashamed for not shooting well I feel is just skirting around it. He has no reason to be ashamed of that, it's not like it was lack of effort. Dude was constantly trying to improve his shot and coaches came out encouraging it. He never improves his shot by not shooting.

    It's not like he never tried improving, he simply couldn't become a good shooter, just how it goes. Some people no matter how hard they work can't shoot.

    Why should he be ashamed of it when according to people around him he worked on his shot literally every off season and in between games and tried to add it?

    It's like saying Shaq should be ashamed of his FT shooting when people know he did nearly everything he could to improve it.
     
  9. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    save cf... i bet you any money cf remembers it
     
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  10. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    Shaq cant control people constantly sending him to the line. It would be an apt comparison if Shaq took 10 3s per game while shooting 10% on them. He like an endless number of NBA players stuck to what they were good at.

    Westbrook and only Westbrook can control his FGA and refused to stick with what he was good at. Forcing shots he had no business shooting his entire career.

    He’s ALREADY 33rd all time in shot attempts. While only being 214th all time in games played. And somewhere in the 1000 range all time in scoring efficiency. Shameful

    And I will add as an edit once again.

    I didn’t say he should be ashamed of being a poor shooter and I have no doubt he worked on his shot. He should be ashamed he shot so many times as an obvious poor shooter.
     
    #610 jordnnnn, Apr 11, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
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  11. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    And I'll say again...his coaches were fine with his shooting and often encouraged it because they knew he was working on his shot and wanted him to get better at it. Coaches and players come out defending his shot taking all the time likely because they know how hard he worked at it and hoped the hard work would pay off.
     
  12. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Yeah definitely.

    People here hold it against Russ that he won an MVP over Harden and will hold that grudge for decades...but NBA circles, how many people got bad stuff to say about Russ? No one does. They know he's a hard worker that made the most of his abilities and gave his all. Even Russ' rivals like Mitchell came out to defend him, all the players and coaches seem to have nothing but good to say about the guy.

    He gave his all and his all was good enough to be a 9x all star, scoring and assist champion, 9x All NBA, MVP, and a Finals appearance. If Cade accomplishes HALF of what Russ did he'd still be a hall of famer. Dude has had a great career. Helluva career, is it the best ever or close to it, nope. But it's a helluva career.
     
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  13. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Westbrook MVP talk starting to heat up.
     
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  14. B-Bob

    B-Bob my celli weighs a ton
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    [​IMG]
     
  15. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    This is true. . .lol .. . this is true

    Rocket River
     
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  16. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    Right.

    I hope one day we have one of the worst 3 point shooters ever and he takes more 3s than almost anyone ever.

    It will be a good thing. Something to be proud of and applaud. Because he worked hard to be one of the worst 3 point shooters ever! And even though we know it’s not a good thing for a piss poor shooter to shoot so much we will act like it’s awesome and we won’t question the basketball IQ of this poor shooter who shoots more than almost anyone because he works hard and plays with effort!
     
    #616 jordnnnn, Apr 12, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
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  17. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Yeah, I'll just take the players and coaches take on Russ and why he was taking those shots over yours. Especially when they were encoraging him to take the shots. Some of yall will never understand that the game isn't all about stats and math.

    And BTW...Who said anything about Cade's shooting. I said if Cade ACCOMPLISHED half as much as Westbrook did...s
     
    #617 JayGoogle, Apr 12, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  18. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    I wasn’t referring to anyone in specific. It was a hypothetical to show how ridiculous your defense of Westbrook’s fatal flaw.

    Because it doesn’t matter who it is. If a poor shooter insists on shooting at high volume it is bad for your team. Period. If a poor shooter insists on shooting at high volume then it’s totally reasonable to question their basketball IQ.

    I can guarantee you with 100% certainty the game plan for the Harden/Westbrook Rockets was NOT for Westbrook to shoot the ball MORE than Harden. No coach EVER would make that their game plan. And yet it happened....

    Some of y’all will never understand that while the game isn’t 100% about stats and math, A LOT of it is.

    Specifically when it comes to scoring efficiency and volume. Because that’s exactly what this games boils down to. Score as efficiently as possible while trying to make your opponent score as inefficiently as possible. Every shot Westbrook takes outside of the paint is a win for the other team. And he took a lot of shots out of the paint.

    Also you really have to stop hiding behind “I will take what players and coaches say” as a way to defend this crazy stance about Westbrook.

    What coach is going to publicly comment that their 40+ million dollar player refuses to stop making boneheaded decisions? It doesn’t happen. They always have and always will say the “right” thing when asked about their players publicly.

    You and I both can see clear as day that John Wall has done a lot of stupid things on the court this season.....have we heard Silas or any of the players publicly say anything directly about it? No. As has always been they always give positive bullshit quotes.

    Everyone in the world knows Melo always has and still is an inefficient chucker, yet ask any of these young players about Melo and they will have nothing but glowing things to say about how great of a scorer he is. So do we go with what a player has to say or do we go with the numbers to judge if a player is actually a good scorer?

    Because I know you know what % you have to shoot to be considered good. It’s not a debatable topic. Someone who shoots 85+% from the FT line is great. Someone who shoots below 50% is crappy. A player who shoots over 40% from 3 is great. Someone who shoots under 30% is crappy. These are unwavering standards of what is considered good or bad in this era. We know where Westbrook and Melo fall.
     
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  19. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    My defense? Dude, all I'm saying that if a player is working on his shot, a franchise player, the coach would give him that leeway to take those shots. You going on about how it's a bad shot when the coach gave him the greenlight is more on the coach than the player.

    CP3 disagrees. CP3 was TELLING Lu Dort of all people that if he's open he needs to take the shot. Lu Dort. Why? Because CP3 wanted the player to play free and with confidence and he knew that Dort would make up for bad shots with stellar play elsewhere. Plus, paraphrasing, CP3 said he works hard enough to take the shot. Sound familiar to what I'm saying? You think CP3 gave a **** about his %?

    I don't care about the Westbrook/Harden duo, that was one year in his career. Either way, you're talking about MDA here who gives nearly all his star players the greenlight to do whatever they want because he believes (and I think he's right) it builds their confidence

    Yes we have? Wood literally came out after a game and talked about how he wasn't getting the ball and he should have had the ball more...and Wall came out and said "I think we do move the ball enough..." contradicting the coach and Wood, why? Because he knows they were talking about his *** not moving the ball.

    Doc Rivers coaching the Celtics flat out said one time that Rondo should not shoot 3 point shots. Publicly. Everyone on the team knows Russ' FG% on the floor, including Russ, trust it's been talked about between coaches and players. The reason it's tolerated is either because they think if he keeps shooting he'll turn it around or they think he makes up for it elsewhere on the court.

    We've had Karl talk about Melo in name...and Melo of course had issues with MDA... Where are the coaches that coached Westbrook going on about his bad shooting? This is the NBA, dudes disrespect each other all the time, Giannis really got on national TV and dissed Harden's game and Harden returned fire. Westbrook does nothing but trash talk and chest thump during games and all ex-coaches and ex-players defend him.

    Players also always speak up when they are not on a team anymore, even nice guys like Nash can say Dwight wasn't a good fit and everything that comes with that statement. It's not an insult but it's a clear 'I couldn't really play with him...' kind of quote.

    My guess is they are referring to his ability to score than his FG%, that he's a versatile scorer and that they are thinking more of Melo in his prime, not his last of years, which you seem to love judging both Melo and Westbrook in their last years. When Harden is 39 and can't do half of the stuff he does on the floor now and on his last legs lets keep this same energy. We're acting like Russ career's legacy will be Washington and Houston Russ, like he's going into the HOF with a Wizards jersey or something.

    Like oh yeah, Yall remember that time Shaq played on the Celtics? Let's judge his career on those years and not his Orlando and LAL years...

    And I know you know what's considered a good player and a bad player. A guy that racked up all-stars, all-NBAs, an MVP, Finals Appearance, and multiple deep playoff trips, means he's had a wildly successful career. Despite his shooting. Players aren't perfect, keep on pointing out that he wasn't always the best shooter, cool. He wasn't the best of shooters, but he was a terrific player when he was at the height of his game.


    .
     
  20. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    lol you are the best.

    Westbrook and Melo have both had great careers. Zero denial. Their peaks, as short as they were, some of the best. There were seasons where they were great players. But for the majority of their careers they were low efficiency chuckers. I am not singling out their twilight crap years im judging the whole career. Their careers like every other player ever had some flaws.

    Those 2 specifically shared the same flaw. A serious one. They shot way too many times for their shooting ability. Whether they worked hard, were encouraged to or other NBA players wrongly talked highly of their abilities the end result was two players who were VERY inefficient will by the end of their careers have taken more shots than almost anyone in league history.

    This is not a good thing. There is zero way to spin that fact into a positive.

    No player is perfect. This is one of the reasons Westbrook and Melo aren’t perfect.

    What is it about Westbrook that you refuse to place any of the blame for his flaw on himself? You are tripping all over yourself to blame any and everyone but the guy who has all the control. Westbrook.

    You don’t think he would have been a better player for team success had he averaged like 12 shot attempts per game rather than the 20+ he did for soo many years?


    CP3 encouraging a young up and coming ROOKIE to keep shooting when he is left WIDE OPEN is an entirely different situation than Westbrook in years 7-10 of his career still continuously firing up off balanced bricks.

    If you think CP3 would still be encouraging Dort to keep shooting 3s if he’s below 30% in year 6 of his career you are crazy. If Westbrook had shown ANY signs of continued improvement then it would be warranted, but it’s in fact been the opposite. Just keeps getting worse and the volume doesn’t change.

    Referencing their ability to score, not their FG%? What world is this? Your scoring ability is tied directly to how often the ball goes in the hoop. Durant and Curry are correctly regarded as unreal all time great scorers because of this. They shoot a lot and it goes in a lot. Curry and Durant have amazing scoring ability. Westbrook and Melo do not. They had amazing shot taking ability, but were missing the most important part. Actually making the shots at a high clip.
     
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