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[Official] Astros Off Season

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Castor27, Nov 7, 2022.

  1. Marshall Bryant

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    Defense is definitely a factor in desirability. But Gold Gloves aren't about defense, they are about theatrics. But thankfully that is slowly changing to include true metrics rather than just a misleading impression.
     
  2. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    Cool now GG isn't about defense. you learn a lot on CF's
     
  3. Marshall Bryant

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    Glad I could educate you. Check out Jeter's Gold Gloves and then check out defensive metrics developed afterwards and applied.

    Jeter GG dWAR - Deserved GG dWAR
    2004 Jeter -0.3 - Adam Everett 2.5
    2005 Jeter -1.8 - Jack Wilson 4.1
    2006 Jeter -0.7 - Adam Everett 4.1
    2009 Jeter 1.1 - Frank Gutierrez 3.7
    2010 Jeter 0.0 - Alex Gonzales 3.8
     
    #3163 Marshall Bryant, Dec 2, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
  4. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    cool. should i check out the numerous other players that definitely deserved the defensive recognition or do those not apply? The classic CF's logic

    Lets start with Houston's very own Yuli, Tucker, Pena. Why in the world are they GG winners. Tough question to answer. Has nothing to do with defense, I'm told

    [​IMG]
     
    #3164 YOLO, Dec 2, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
  5. Nook

    Nook Member

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    There were 4-5 teams that offered Abreu three years and over 50-55 million. There were several teams that offered as much as the Astros. All the offers were close, but he came to Houston because he wanted to win and is close with a number of players on the team.
     
  6. Yordan The Great

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    Got eem.
     
  7. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    still showing your stupidity. Got eemmmmmmm
     
  8. Marshall Bryant

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    Times are changing. Revisit the thread above where I posted the metrics after you posted. There has been a complete change with sabermetrics now used by players and writers have become more objective. But we aren't there yet. But it's the sabermetrics that are used for value and any connection with Gold Gloves is incidental.
     
    #3168 Marshall Bryant, Dec 2, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2022
  9. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    Exactly what I thought. CF's logic is to apply 1 thing they don't like out of an extremely large sample size and it's apparently the only thing that matters. The logic doesn't apply anywhere else. That's not how reality works.

    So why did Yuli, Pena, and Tuck win the GG? educate us. again it's not defense I'm told. Keeping it light and just starting with the hometown team. I could pull a laundry list of other players that deserved it but that's for later
     
  10. Nook

    Nook Member

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    He has missed 175 games over the past four years....

    I am so sick of "we need a left handed bat", no you need players that can hit lefties and righties..... and Contreras last year out hit Nimmo against both lefties and righties.

    The Astros have a number of good centerfielders in the Astros system and they have McCormick for now... Nimmo likely won't be a centerfielder in a few seasons anyway.

    Nimmo is also likely going to get a longer contract for more money than Contreras because everyone wants a centerfielder.
     
    Marteen, arkoe, Phillyrocket and 11 others like this.
  11. Sep11ie

    Sep11ie Member

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    Wilson and Everett were NL at those times, no?
     
  12. Marshall Bryant

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    Thank you. You have to be in the ball park, but then other factors determine the final outcome. Houston, to the chagrin of press outside Houston (and some in Houston), are a favorable destination to winners.
     
    Jeremy Williams and Nook like this.
  13. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    Not to mention Franklin Gutierrez played CF...
     
  14. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    I really want Contreras because I think he fits a need better than Nimmo and will be cheaper. That said, Nimmo can hit lefties and righties and was basically even with Contreras in hitting last season (I'd give Nimmo the slightest of edge if a call had to be made). Nimmo has a longer track record as being a better hitter. The injuries are a little concern, but Nimmo would be who I'd go after if Contreras can't be signed. The bigger contract will likely make it hard to get someone else good in addition to Nimmo.
     
  15. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I don't dislike Nimmo's production, the issue I have is that he misses a lot of games, he is getting older to play CF and he is going to likely get a longer contract and more money that other players out there.

    As far as Nimmo, he hits lefties and righties fine, I was just saying hitting from the left side doesn't matter as much as the ability to hit both lefties and righties.
     
    Jeremy Williams and Htown Legend like this.
  16. Marshall Bryant

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    Their defensive value will not be determined by gold glove awards. They will be determined by defensive metrics. Any correlation to Gold Gloves are a component of greater use of sabermetrics by those determining the award. AKA incidental, not causal.
     
  17. Yordan The Great

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    Pull the dang trigger on Benintendi. Sure up left field for the next 5 years. The best 5 years of his career coming up most likely.

    Then pull the trigger on Vazquez for 4 years. That dude is just a winner plain and simple.
     
  18. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    except sabermetrics isn't the biggest determination. Next

    GG isnt about defense. yet you're mentioning defensive metics
     
  19. Marshall Bryant

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    I must have missed that one. I was trying to use a top ten list to find the best SS. In no year was Jeter even close enough to make the top ten.
     
  20. Marshall Bryant

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    Yes. I was trying to use BR instead of my memory, but I didn't want to proof it like it as a doctoral thesis. I think the point itself was made, even with a few incidental flaws. Having to go back through the entire process every time with three different lists (MLB, AL and NL) did create errors. Now if a couple of errors is more important than the point, then have fun.
     

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