If we can't get Odom, which it looks like right now we aren't even on the radar screen as even showing any interest in acquiring him..................... I think we should do a salary cap deal with Memphis for Person, Knight, Swift and/or Battier. There are too many good FA's next year and I think Houston would have a very good chance to get either KG or Rasheed if they had the capspace next year. Plus, Knight would give us a good backup PG option (lots better than bobblehead) and Person can still nail the 3. So, we have a year with several guys running the 2-3 positions, we can find out what we have in Boki, we can evaluate the possibility of trading Cutino if our starting backcourt doesn't mesh this year, we can evaluate EG and take offers for Rice during the season and be able to pick the best offer. Or we can just wait until the end of the year, let the contracts expire, and be a big player for Garnett, Rasheed, or some other stud that would love to play with Steve and Yao. Any way you look at it, the Rockets are setting themselves up right. People keep blasting CD but CD is putting this team in the best position for future success right now by not pulling the trigger on some lame trade. I really think that there is a gigantic tug of war going on behind the scenes between CD and Jerry West right now. West is trying to get in our back pocket and CD is holding him off until the game turns in his favor, because CD knows that the Rockets still hold the better cards. West is going into the season with a roster that he knows can't win, that has one player with star potential. And we are going into the season with an improving Yao and Stevie, and our backup center is as good as their starting center. West has a pile of players that duplicate each other and are mediocre. And each teams' swingmen are interchangable. So, right now, West needs CD a whole lot more than CD needs West. I think the Rockets will come out really well in the near future and I am glad CD is not mortgaging our entire future just to make a deal to appease the fans. Hopefully, Les doesn't walk on CD and mess things up.
1) Aren't you the same person who was claiming Elton Brand was a lock to be Rocket about 2 months back? 2) Do you have a clue how much money Minnesota can offer Garnett as they have his Bird Rights and he will make $28m this season? 3) Rasheed Wallace willl command an excess of $12m (he currently makes $16m). The Blazers have his Bird Rights and they can S&T him. 4) Even if Jerry West were dumb enough (or we drugged him) and he shipped the Rockets $11m of expiring contracts without taking Rice's expiring contract, the Rockets have ~$47m committed for 04-05. Minus your $11m leaves ~$36m. On a $42m cap, we have ~$6m to bid on KG or Sheed. Unless you further think West is dumb enough to value Cato over Lo Wright and Taylor over re-signing Swift, this is all a big pipedream.
I just don't think you give Cato up to a Western Conference team... Memphis wants Cato more than any other player... They just want a center, period... I wouldn't give them anything... Personally I think they took Posey just to make us trade with them... I wouldn't give Memphis nothing... Let them get killed at center... I will take what we have and go with it... Our weakness will be at the SF position but I expect us to run small lineups anyway... I do believe we will sign a vet. PG and if we do I know we will go small with a vet. PG, Francis at the 2 and Cat at the 3... Don't forget that we have defensive zones that we can run against taller SF's... Not sure who will pickup as a vet. PG but someone that can help us while letting Franchise go to work as well as Yao tha Ming... If someone wants something we have they better give us something good... I like Battier and Person but I just don't think Memphis wants EG, Taylor or Cuttino that much... They want Cato... They are in a bad situation especially in the West without a center... So unless they give us what we want to the "T", I wouldn't help them for a minute... I'd want Battier, a 1st rd. pick and Troy Bell for Cato and Norris... Or Battier, Swift and Knight for Cato and Taylor... Hey they are the ones that want a center, just how badly do they want Cato... Those are just thoughts... Odds are we aren't going to make any more moves just add a vet. PG and hopefully sign Hawkins back and go with our team... I wouldn't be surprised if we sign a third big man like Shawnelle Scott as a precaution...
Gater, Thank you very much for pointing this out. Many around here have been trying to trade Cato to Memphis because West has been looking for legitimate low post help. Yet, Cato is not an upgrade over Wright at all. I believe Wright even makes less than Cato also.
1) No, I have never said that Brand was a lock to be a Rocket. I would have loved to have him and I did say that the Rockets would not make any roster moves until the Brand situation was worked out because I felt that CD would be interested in trying to acquire him. 2) Do you have a clue as to why KG hasn't committed to resigning with Minnesota yet, even after they made all these moves. It's because KG wants to win a championship. He's already got the dough. He wants hardware now. If he wants out of Minnesota next year to be on a true championship contender, the money won't matter..........as much. Of course the money will matter some when the $$$$'s are that big, but winning still holds importance for some players out there and KG is one of them. Can the Rockets sign him? I didn't say they would. I am saying they probably can come up with some way to sign him if he wants to come here. They do have some capspace if they get those expiring contracts. My point is that the Rockets can be a player in next year's FA market when there is going to be a lot of talent out there, and some of it is likely to want to come to Houston and play for an organization with assets such as Stevie and Yao. Could a contract be structured to get KG? Could a deal be done to acquire KG? Come on dude. Wake up! Teams are gonna be knocking themself out next year to get their hands on KG? He's gonna play for somebody. Don't tell me that the Rockets have no chance of getting him. 3) How in the world you can predict what Rasheed is going to command in the open market a year from now is beyond me. Yeah, the Blazers can S&T him, can't they? Hmmmmmm, could we trade for him, not only in a year, but now???????????????? 4) You must be a genius. You already know what the cap is for next year, even before next year has started, even before this year has started. Ugh! Maybe Shaq will break Yao in half this year and force Yao into retirement and we will wind up the year with the worst record and not get our ping pong ball picked and wind up drafting 4th. And then maybe we will draft some player that snorts coke on draft night and dies of overdose. And then maybe out of desparation we go out and sign Chris Dudley for $12 million per year for 8 years and trade Steve Francis away for Ruben Patterson and Mickey Mouse Stoudamire!!!!! And then Van Gundy leaves us for the mighty Atlanta Hawks and we sign that knucklehead on New Orleans to be our coach and Les puts the team up for bid between Ted Stephens, Marge Schott, and Bud Adams. Yeah, most everything on this message board is a big pipedream. Yao was a big pipedream before the lottery last year too. I am not a blind optimist. But neither am I a charter member of the pessimist club. Are you the guy that predicted that Shaq would break Yao in half and Yao would never play more than 50 games in this league? The Rockets are in a good position, not only this year, but going forward. Get over it! Be a fan!
I think you are right. I don't think we make any significant moves at this point except a couple of minor FA additions. Unless some other team presents us with a trade that we cannot turn down, such as a resigned Lamar and Chris Kamen for Rice and Cato or something along that line that allows us to acquire another star quality player. Otherwise, we go to war with what we have and wait for the offers to come rolling in for Rice at the trading deadline.
Be that as it may, Memphis still has the better PG (in Jason Williams). You neglected to mention Jason Williams. Innocent oversight, I'm sure. University (Not That Innocent) Blue
The search function doesn't work but IIRC you were someone who based the entire success of the summer on the Rox getting Brand. That was a definite pipedream. Saying that the Rockets would not make any other move until Brand's situation became clear was meaningless aas those events are unrelated. Nowhere but on this board was Brand's name ever linked to the Rockets. Only here would the equation Mobley + Rice = Brand fly. The Rockets have a chance of signing KG and I have a chance of winning the Texas Lottery. Don't patronize me with the "Come on dude..Wake up" BS. I am not going to waste my time quoting the hundreds of articulate posters who have given thousands of rational reasons why this is not going to occur. I'm supposed to "get a clue" when your master plan to make the Rockets big time FA players next summer is to get a bunch of expiring contracts from the Grizz? If Jerry West is going to dangle two expiring contracts to the rest of the NBA, he sure as hell is going to want a player substantially better than Lo Wright. It ain't Cato...you're turn to "get a clue". And I'll bet Jerry is just drooling at the opportunity to pay Mo Taylor ~$35m over the next 4 years to be Pau Gasol's backup. Bottomline - If you think Garnett will be a Rocket next summer put up...name the price. It's not a prediciton. It's the same reason I and hundreds of other informed people here knew approximately how much Jason Kidd was going to sign for this summer. It's in the CBA. As an 8 season vet, Wallace's max is $13.2m. Someone will offer Wallace near max $. You obvously thought he was a hot commodity or you wouldn't have brought him up in the first place. It has less to do with geniusness than it does just old-fashioned paying attention and noting historical trends. The exact figure estimate as quoted by one of this boards recognized authorites on the CBA is - $43,840,000. If you have a problem with that figure or if you think he's full of it, I suggest you send Mr. Coon an e-mail and tell him so. BTW, since I was $1.8 below Coon, your master plan for FA spending is now up to an estimated $7.8m. I'll bet the Grizz can't wait to unveil the Kelvin and Mo Show.
<i>The Rockets have a chance of signing KG and I have a chance of winning the Texas Lottery</i> I've got to disagree with Gater on this one. Gater at least has a chance of winning the Texas Lottery. Realistically, the Rockets have no chance of outright signing KG next off season. The Garnett to the Rockets trade scenarios were bad enough, but the Rockets outright signing Garnett is laughable. Unless Garnett is willing to take a HUGE paycut next season, then he'll reup with the TWolves. I seriously doubt that Garnett wants to play with Yao and Steve bad enough to take that kid of paycut. As far as Rasheed Wallace and next year's cap, Gater is pretty much right on the money.
I've got to disagree with aelliott on this one. Gater has no chance to win the Texas Lottery, because he knows better than to waste his time with such unlikely things. Now if we could just get this BBS to stop talking about Kevin Garnett trades...sheesh. btw: rumor over 610 Radio is saying Rasheed and Patterson for KMartin and Mutombo...apparently with confirmation by Byron Scott that it is being discussed.
Well, I guess we're just stuck then, with no opportunity to improve. We are stuck with a mediocre team with no chance for a championship and no chance for the lottery for the next few years. We obviously can't improve ourselves because we are just strapped with salary, so we won't be making any moves in the future to improve this team, save getting a lucky draft pick and Van Gundy kicking these guys in the tail day in and day out. So we won't be trading with Memphis. And we are going to give Rice away before next year because we just need more cap space to keep the rest of the players. And KG and Rasheed are impossibilities along with the rest of the FA class next year. Quit twisting what I am saying. I am not saying we are getting KG next year. But I can see the Rockets making moves to free up cap space for next year to make a run at some of the free agent talent that is going to be available. I am saying that CD is in the drivers seat with other GM's concerning trades. I am saying that GM's are gonna be chasing CD down in a few months, if they aren't chasing him down now, to put together trades for either some of our talent or some of our cap space. I am saying that if certain FA's expressed interest in coming to Houston, then I can see CD trying to get them here because they would improve this team. I am saying we are in an excellent position for CD to improve this team. Do I want KG? Absolutely! Did I want Brand? Sure! Do I want Odom? Yes! AT THE RIGHT PRICE! I will go out on a limb here and say that the Rockets will add a star class talent within the next year that will substantially upgrade this club and make it one of the top 4 contenders in the West in 2004-2005. That is, if the star talent doesn't manifest themself on this current roster. EG is still a possible star talent. So either EG will turn into that star or the Rockets will make a move involving some combination of him, Cato, Rice, and/or Cat to upgrade this team so that come the beginning of the 2004 season, this team is one of the top 4 teams in the NBA........errrr.......the Western Conference........errr.......yeah, the NBA. Gater, you can say that we are strapped, that we can't do anything. But I am saying that this is a winning organization, Les is a winner, CD is a winner, JVG is a winner. This team will be a winner, in the near future. Once again, I did not base the Rockets entire off season success on getting Brand. I just said that I didn't feel that they would make any personnel decisions until Brand's situation had been defined. Because, I believed and I still believe that they were interested in getting Brand if the Clippers would have done a S&T. And I think they would have been willing to part with Cat and Eddie along with Rice to make it happen. Yes, I would have loved to get Brand.......or Odom for that matter. I think they would have been a great fit here. And I think it is fun to speculate what is going to happen in the future. I speculated a year ago on another board that the Rockets would win the lottery and get Yao. Did I think it would actually happen? No. But I wanted it to. Yep, pipedreams do come true sometimes. And for every trade that the Rockets have made, you can find thousands of reasons why they shouldn't have been able to make the trade. Remember Steve Francis. There is no way in ..... that we should have been able to make a trade to get him. But it happened, didn't it? How about Clyde Drexler? For Otis Thorpe? Come on now. Ummmmm, Pippen for Roy Rogers??????? Yeah, Pippen turned into Quitten, but when the Rockets made that deal, everyone was quite shocked to be able to pick up a major talent for a 12th man! How many more deals you want me to list?????????????????? Those were all lottery shot deals!!!! Because players wanted to play in HOUSTON!!!!! That hasn't changed. It's only getting better. The point I am making is that superstars attract other superstars and stars!!!!!! We have 2 superstars in the making right here!!!! We are going to attract FA talent!!!!!!!!!!!! Be it KG, or Rasheed, or a 2nd tier star. And if CD sets us up with caproom next offseason, we are going to pick up a substantial talent!!!!! All this bologna about being cap locked is just bologna!!! And besides all that, we have an owner that will pay the luxury tax if he can see that it puts us in the best possible chance to win a championship. That is not right now, this year. But in a year or two when Shaq is fading, and Karl is gone, and TD is older, I can see Les going over the cap to put this team in the best possible position to win a championship. Better get to the doctor quick. Sounds like you have a good case of Clipperitis.
GOOD LORD... Im just reading all this crap you are posting... JUST LEAVE IT ALONE... i know you are just expressing your opinions but dam right about in the second line I WAS DROOLING becuz you tried to make your point several times... JUST LEAVE IT ALOVE FOR GOODNESS SAKES... SORRY IF I OFFENDED YOU...
I never said we were stuck. All I said was your cap clearing scheme with Memphis is severely flawed and even on the remote chance that West would bite, we would only have about $8m in FA money. While good, it is not KG or 'Sheed money. Our progress will come from individual improvements by the core of Yao, Steve and Cat, the affect JVG & staff has on the Rox...particularly defense, hopefully Mobley and especially EGriffin, and the contributions of Piatkowki and AGriffin who hopefully will be underpaid overachievers (in contrast to some overpaid underachievers already on the roster). It is just flat out unrealistic to think that every player (especially those of near All Star caliber) in the NBA wants to play for the Rockets and will do so for less money. Or that they will all force a trade so they can play in Houston. Or that we can get 1st teamers from playoffs teams for Moochie and change. Excuse me? I'm putting words into your mouth? Here is exactly what you said to start this thread: "I think we should do a salary cap deal with Memphis for Person, Knight, Swift and/or Battier. There are too many good FA's next year and I think Houston would have a very good chance to get either KG or Rasheed if they had the capspace next year. " In your own words - the Rockets have a "very good" chance for either Garnett or Wallace. I happen to disagree and logically stated why. Jerry West is not going to give up expiring contracts for players marginally better than he already has. If your scheme is that great, maybe West should let those players walk and go after KG himself. Other than a vague reference to Rudy in the 2000 Olympics, I've never heard Garnett mention Houston about anything. Now here is something you need to understand about the CBA. Read this slowly and carefully....perhaps more than once... When trading Glen Rice, the Rockets will have to take back in nearly as much as they send out unless they are dealing with a team under the cap which can absorb the difference. Got that? Currently, only the Spurs, Nuggets, Heat and Jazz have cap room. And to my knowledge, none of them has ever expressed an interest in Rice. Besides, why would they eat up this year's cap space to use it next summer? So the bottomline is this. The Rox will have to take on $9+m worth of contracts in any deal that involves Rice. The whole point of trading Rice is NOT to clear cap space for the Rockets (they can let him expire and get a $9m salary reduction). The value of Rice is in who he will fetch from a team desiring cap space next summer. Let me re-state once more so there's no confusion. There is only one way the Rockets can be big FA players next summer and both scenarios have to occur: 1) The Rockets let Glen Rice expire without a trade. AND 2) Some team wants or needs Kelvin Cato or Mo Taylor badly enough to ship Houston an expiring 2004 contract in a trade. If you want to think Jerry West is going to take on Kelvin Cato or Mo Taylor when the Grizz have only $33.3m committed for 2004-2005, we will just have to disagree. And unless someone can post a realistic trade for Cato or Taylor to a team that 1) Cato or Taylor is markedly better than a current player at that postion and 2) That team is willing to give up their potential cap space for 2004 (or increase their potential LTax burden) and 3) That team has a contract expiring in 2004... I will remain skeptical of any bigtime FA cap space for 2004.
