You don't believe me? Look it up, he's been insanely dominant. His play this year has been transcendent. Agree or Disagree?
Dotel pitched a great few innings in extra innings for the Mets in the divisional series in 99 vs. Atlanta. Not a bad trade considering we gave up Hampton who has completely broken down as a pitcher, and Derek Bell, who has initiated "operation shutdown".
Screw it, here we go. Dotel is having a great year. Best reliever in baseball, uhhh no. I can throw two guy at you from Atlanta that are having at least as good a year as him. This is just Atlanta mind you, I'm sure there are other middle relievers out there on other teams that are having great years too, but I'm too lazy to look up the pitching stats from every team. As far as "transcendent"...c'mon. W-L ERA innings hits per inning Dotel 5-3 1.76 87 .58 C.Hammond 7-2 1.05 68 .70 M.Remlinger 7-2 1.83 59 .66 You have got to stop with this homer Dotel stuff man.
Utterly meaningless postseason stats here: '99: 1-0, 8.10 ERA, 2G, 3.1 IP, 5H, 3R, 4BB, 5K '01: 0-0, 5.40 ERA, 2G, 3.1 IP, 5H, 1HR, 2R, 0BB, 5K Kid's gonna be fine as long as the 'Stros don't burn his arm out, he struggled in Sept. last year (5.40 ERA) after being unhittable in July/Aug...if he does the same this year, the Stros are done. Hey Htown, Dotel's pitched almost 30 more innings than Remy & almost 20 more than Hammond...find some new examples.
So 20 more innings, with a higher ERA, makes the season "transcendent"? Jeeze, you guys are pretty funny sometimes.
Dotel could possibly be one of the best setup men in baseball, but hes not the best relief pitcher in baseball. Id throw guys like Smoltz, Gagne, a healthy Rivera WAAAAAAAAY ahead of him. Someone who could be potentially good is Kyle Farnsworth of the Cubs. Hes got a 92 MPH slpit finger. Leaves his fastball up sometimes and gets crushed though.
I think Dotel might leave whenever his contract is up. For one he can get more money on another team because the Stros won't pay him and secondly he can be the #1 guy out of the bullpen and not a setup man for Wagner.
Htownhero...what Remlinger and Hammond are doing is awesome - as a Braves fan, I follow them every day and know how much they are helping the Braves in the bullpen this year. However, Dotel is still better than both of them. He gives up a good deal less hits and walks (~0.85/ip for Dotel vs. ~1 for both Remlinger and Hammond), has stayed healthy all year (unlike Reminlger, who has missed time on the DL), and is a strikeout artist, already having fanned more batters in relief than a lot of starters do in an entire season. To boot, he's nearly doubled both Remlinger's and Hammond's totals for the season. The Braves bullpen is, by far, the best in baseball. But Dotel is a better relief pitcher than both of them and a pitcher who could be considered, in time, a lockdown closer. You really can't say the same for either Hammond or Remlinger. I was going to take the same argument that you made and run with it...but I looked at the numbers - Dotel's got the advantage everywhere but ERA, where he only tops Remlinger, and wins, a statistic more reflective of the respective teams than of the pitchers themselves.
Plus, let's not forget that Dotel pitches roughly half of his innings in a hitter's park (and it has been argued the second most hitter friendly park in baseball behind Coors).
Dotel is having a great year. In the end tough, him being a middle reliever makes is less impressive to me. I pointed out Hammond and Remlinger because I am familiar with the Braves and they are middle relievers. I know for a fact that they aren't under the same pressure night in night out as Smoltz because I watch the games. I don't watch Houston games, so maybe I'm wrong. Maybe every game Dotel pitches in is as full of pressure as the 9th's that I've seen Smoltz pitch. If thats the case, then I am more impressed. I don't think his situations are more stressfull than either of these two guys though, seeing as they are all middle relievers on competitive teams with well established closers, I'd think that their situations are quite similiar. So if these guys are pitching in similiar situations and I see that they have comparable, not quite as impressive but still comparable numbers to Dotel, thn I'm not so impressed with Dotel that I would call him the "best reliever in baseball". Not by a long shot.
Please don't mention John Smoltz and his 3.61 ERA in the same breath as Octavio Dotel. Spare me the talk about saves; it's practically as irrelevant as the win-loss record for pitchers. In other words, it's very influenced by the team around you. Truthfully, I'd rather have Billy Wagner as my closer than Smoltz. Gagne and Rivera also have higher ERA's than Dotel, but they are at least comparable. The only reason Gagne's received so much hype is the city he plays in. Rivera's had great postseasons in the past... but they don't have much to do with right now. Also, the "pressure" argument really doesn't hold water. There are pressure situations in the 8th too, just like the 9th. I can't tell you how many times Dotel would have to go into a jam late in the 7th, or pitch both the 8th and the 9th. He performed so many roles, including long relief, set-up, and closer, and he's done them all well. I don't know if there's anyone better, much less "wayyyy better".
Dotel is having a great year. In the end tough, him being a middle reliever makes is less impressive to me. I pointed out Hammond and Remlinger because I am familiar with the Braves and they are middle relievers. I know for a fact that they aren't under the same pressure night in night out as Smoltz because I watch the games. I don't watch Houston games, so maybe I'm wrong. Maybe every game Dotel pitches in is as full of pressure as the 9th's that I've seen Smoltz pitch. If thats the case, then I am more impressed. He doesn't pitch the 9th too often, but he basically only pitches the 7th and 8th innings in 0/1/2 run games. He's been more impressive recently as well, with a 0.5 ERA since the all-star break. He's also extremely useful because he can pitch 2 innings and/or pitch 2 or 3 days in a row without losing any of his stuff / velocity. All in all, if I needed a generic shutout inning, I would pick him over any other reliever in baseball.
i thought he would be last year. He will take wagners place for sure no doubt. Who did we trade for him?
So how can you have an informed opinion? There are a TON of things you can't tell from raw stats or a box score.
Why didn't you use my whole sentence. I said "I don't watch Houston games, B]so I maw be wrong[/B]." Since you have made the point though, has Puedlfor watched film on every reliever before making the statement that Dotal is the best in the league? If not, what is he basing his statement on, the stats? You should really call him out on that man.
do people still think Minute Maid Park is a hitter's park?? does anyone have any statistics on offensive production in that park relative to the rest of the league?? seems to me astros pitching has shown this year that it's been a great pitcher's park for them...they perform MUCH more effectively at home than on the road.
