Change? why yes, and I believe it: Obama has said for months that he'd only increase taxes on those making over $250k. but his new ad implies the threshold is $200k: <object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vJvkRFKGgGw&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vJvkRFKGgGw&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object> and Biden, say's it's $150k: <object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zAEE1_IUycs&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0xe1600f&color2=0xfebd01&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zAEE1_IUycs&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0xe1600f&color2=0xfebd01&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object> which is it? in my own experiments w/ Obama's tax calculator , it was only at $150k that I got $500, and, as noted there Paul Krugman says the threshold is $182k. so, is Obama lying, or flip-flopping?
If you actually paid attention you would know this... In fact, Obama's plan promises cuts for middle-income taxpayers and would increase rates only for persons with family incomes above $250,000 or with individual incomes above $200,000. http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/more_tax_deceptions.html
FACTCHECK OWNED and a REPOST of a FAIL FAIL from ling ling... http://bbs.clutchfans.com/showthread.php?t=156187 WOW.
And for the hat trick: This thread is stolen from McCain/Fox News joint talking points for Oct 28, with the thread title barely altered to camouflage the theft: http://www.google.com/search?source...an:+Defining+"Rich"+down++&btnG=Google+Search FAIL FAIL FAIL OLE!
When small business owners and people that own service companies are taxed where does everyone think that extra money will come from? Small businesses will then either pass those additional costs onto customers or the 'median' income people, will pay their employees less or hire less people. So 'taxing the rich and corporations' sounds great and all but all we're doing is increasing costs of goods and services, lowering our salaries and limiting employment opportunities. Then we hope the government will be efficient in its redistribution of that money. I'm sure they'll build some more fancy washington buildings and hire lawyers, consultants and set up an agency and the results will be sparse if any.
Do you know why the government has an AAA credit rating and can wave its fingers to create trillion dollar bailouts? Because of its taxation powers to raise revenue. You do know that that power has to be used right? Or do you?
so sam, i'm unclear, do you agree w/ mons. krugman that obama would raise taxes on everyone making over $182k? or is it Biden w/ which you agree?
You guys realize that Factcheck is run by the same organization the Obama and Ayers served on the board of, correct? Did you see this at the bottom of the link: Copyright © 2003 - 2008, Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania They are NOT an objective source, and they MOST CERTAINLY have a dog in this hunt. Heck, you may as well link to DailyKos for backup, libs... ...no cred...
Oh right, I should have known these were Commies. maybe you should read Slate's farewell to him. http://www.slate.com/?id=2071870 Here's an excerpt:
They both served on the board of the Annenberg Pubic Policy Center of U.Penn - in Philadelphia? Why would a program on public schools in Chicago be run out of Philly? You have literally no clue of the breadth of your nonsense. Hush my friend, hush. It's pretty clearly stated what the tax plan is. And it's also pretty clearly stated with respect to Biden in the other EPIC PANDA FAIL thread regarding his definition of middle class. Feel free to read it instead of hogging his rightful humiliation for yourself.
so you're unable, or unwilling, to state which of Obama's three thresholds you think is THE ONE TRUE THRESHOLD, or, perhaps you agree with Krugman, who actually documents Obama's lie, albeit ironically, w/o comment.
No I'm basically unwilling to pretend that there are three plans when there aren't. There is one. If you (or the blog/forum you are copying from) think that there are three - then you are wrong. For details of his tax plan, see barackobama.com I'm off to the gymnasium. I've enjoyed watching your wheels come off today as the pendulum swings. Six more days of this should be entertaining.
thank you tj2. surprisingly many of us understand that to a degree money comes from somewhere. however. since taxes are necessary due to the fact that we have a government, and somewhat higher taxes are necessary because bush and co. created iraq, and wall street and co. required bailouts, we have to get that money from somewhere. as a society we may deem those who make more than 250k a year to be able to pay some of that. what is so bad about it? you can obviously think its higher than they should have to. but that's why we have a democracy. finally some people are overcoming their obsessive and naive notions that we'll all be rich some day when we pull ourselves up from our bootstraps thus the 95% plus that make less than 250k feel like they can marginally increase the higher tax rates, perhaps cut some loopholes that those in the top 5% use to lower taxes and the budgetary concerns will be addressed. i mean i know this 35% to 39% may be too much for you since im sure you claim to make more than 250k. im sure you can go somewhere to europe and get similar services. of course it'll be hard for you to find a place where you pay less in taxes. or you could always go to the persian gulf where you'd pay minimal in taxes, too bad it may be hard for you to set up shop and have all the resources you need. YOUR CALL! i hear iceland has a flat tax of only like 36% (including local and national levels). you could always try your hand at fishing!
EXHIBIT A: So many of these attacks have the logic problem of presuming something unwarranted. Here, we see a presumption that the tax plan should have an absolute threshold for all situations, disregarding lines like single/family, citizen/business, etc. While an absolute threshold would be pleasing in simplicity, that is not the case with the detailed and readily available tax proposal of Obama's campaign. If we keep wanting our problems to be understood or even solved in 30 seconds, we will keep struggling as a nation.
nice- so you're granting Obama some elasticity in his (variously) highly specific proposals to not raise taxes on "95% of americans." is that 95% below $250k? $200k? $182k? $150k? or do you just not care, because it's "change." thought exercise: Obama wants to let W's tax cuts expire, at least for the top ouple of brackets (not clear where the line is drawn, but let's assume it's somewhere arounds $150k). so, if your AGI (married, filing jointly?) is $150k or above in 2007 (last year for which we have data), plug that into the 2000 tax tables (last year before Bush tax cuts- available online) and see what the difference would be vs. what you paid in 2007. then add Obama's tax increase to it. there's your Obama penalty.
