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Obama's ancestors owned slaves

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Mar 2, 2007.

  1. basso

    basso Member
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    this at least as relevant as Romney's ancestors' multiple wives.

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/politics/bal-te.obama02mar02,0,3453027.story

    [rquoter]A new twist to an intriguing family history
    Census records, genealogical research show forebears of Obama's mother had slaves

    Click here to find out more!
    By David Nitkin and Harry Merritt
    Sun Reporters

    March 2, 2007

    WASHINGTON -- Many people know that Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's father was from Kenya and his mother from Kansas.

    But an intriguing sliver of his family history has received almost no attention until now: It appears that forebears of his white mother owned slaves, according to genealogical research and census records.

    The records - which had never been addressed publicly by the Illinois senator or his relatives - were first noted in an ancestry report compiled by William Addams Reitwiesner, who works at the Library of Congress and practices genealogy in his spare time. The report, on Reitwiesner's Web site, carries a disclaimer that it is a "first draft" - one likely to be examined more closely if Obama is nominated.

    According to the research, one of Obama's great-great-great-great grandfathers, George Washington Overall, owned two slaves who were recorded in the 1850 census in Nelson County, Ky. The same records show that one of Obama's great-great-great-great-great-grandmothers, Mary Duvall, also owned two slaves.

    The Sun retraced much of Reitwiesner's work, using census information available on the Web site ancestry.com and documents retrieved by the Kentucky Department for Libraries and Archives, among other sources. The records show that Overall, then 30, owned a 15-year-old black female and a 25-year-old black male, while Mary Duvall, his mother-in-law, owned a 60-year-old black man and a 58-year-old black woman. (Slaves are listed in the 1850 census by owner, age, "sex," and "colour," not by name.)

    An Obama spokesman did not dispute the information and said that the senator's ancestors "are representative of America."

    "While a relative owned slaves, another fought for the Union in the Civil War," campaign spokesman Bill Burton said last night. "And it is a true measure of progress that the descendant of a slave owner would come to marry a student from Kenya and produce a son who would grow up to be a candidate for president of the United States."

    The research traces the Duvalls to Mareen Duvall, a major land owner in Anne Arundel County in the 1600s. The inventory of his estate in 1694 names 18 slaves, according to a family history published in 1952.

    The records could add a new dimension to questions by some who have asked whether Obama - who was raised in East Asia and Hawaii and educated at Columbia and Harvard - is attuned to the struggles of American blacks descended from West African slaves.

    "The twist is very interesting," said Ronald Walters, a political scientist who is director of the African-American Leadership Institute at the University of Maryland, College Park. "It deepens his connection with the experience of slavery, even if it deepens it on a different side of the equation."

    Gary Boyd Roberts, a senior research scholar at the New England Historic Genealogical Society who published a book on the family lineage of presidents, said he did not think the slave-holding history was "particularly unusual."

    "If you have a white Southern mother, or a mother from the middle states who has ancestry in the South, it doesn't strike me that that should be very surprising," he said. While the majority of such families did not own slaves, many with some wealth did, Roberts said.

    Reitwiesner's research identifies two other presidential candidates, Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona and former Democratic Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina, as descendants of slave owners. Three of McCain's great-great-grandfathers in Mississippi owned slaves, including one who owned 52 in 1860. Two ancestors of Edwards owned one slave each in Georgia in 1860.

    It was unclear last night whether Obama was aware of any slave-holding ancestors, but he makes no mention of them in his 1995 memoir, Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance.

    The book contains many approving references to his mother's side of the family. At one point, he writes that his mother "could give voice to the virtues of her midwestern past and offer them up in distilled form."

    The memoir, however, comes close to confirming the Overall-Duvall lineage - stopping a generation short. census and other records complete the gaps.

    In a reference to his American ancestry, Obama writes "while one of my great-great-grandfathers, Christopher Columbus Clark, had been a decorated Union soldier, his wife's mother was rumored to have been a second cousin of Jefferson Davis, president of the Confederacy."

    Clark was actually Obama's great-great-great-grandfather, according to Reitwiesner's research and census data available at ancestry.com. A 1930 census document lists Clark, 84, living in the same El Dorado City, Kan., household as a 12-year-old great-grandson, Stanley A. Dunham. Dunham was Obama's grandfather.

    Clark's wife, Susan, was the daughter of George Washington Overall, the latest known family slave owner.

    Reitwiesner, the researcher, declined to be interviewed for this article. "I'll let my Web page [wargs.com] speak for itself," he said in an e-mail. The Obama report contains a disclaimer that appears on all of Reitwiesner's work: "The following material ... should not be considered either exhaustive or authoritative, but rather as a first draft."

    Genealogical experts who reviewed the Obama family tree at the request of The Sun would not vouch for its findings.

    Most of the historical entries lack citations of authenticating source material, such as birth and death certificates or marriage licenses, said Barbara Vines Little, past president of the National Genealogical Society in Virginia, adding that "he has nothing here that I can see that would allow you to make any logical link."

    "You just can't casually throw some documents together and make a sophisticated analysis," said Tony Burroughs, author of Black Roots: A Beginners Guide to Tracing the African American Family Tree and a consultant on a project by the New York Daily News that found that relatives of former Sen. Strom Thurmond appear to have owned the ancestors of civil rights activist the Rev. Al Sharpton.

    But Roberts, the New England scholar, collaborated with Reitwiesner on a 1984 book about the American roots of Princess Diana, and calls him "exceptionally bright" and "quite a good researcher."

    The online Obama family tree, Roberts said, is the work of "an informal team of genealogists" who specialize in Internet-based research and post their findings to test their validity.

    "When you are gathering up things from the Internet, you can get fantastical - by that I mean wild and unbelievable - connections," Roberts said. "Many of them will fall; only a few of them will hold up. But some absolutely extraordinary things do hold up."

    Assisting in the Obama research was Christopher Challender Child, a genealogist at the New England Historic Genealogical Society, who said that Reitwiesner culled fragments from a variety of sources. "There's a limit to what you can verify without a lot of money," Child said. "But from what I see, the line looks pretty good."

    For some, the records may underscore Obama's unique racial heritage as a presidential candidate.

    Author and essayist Debra J. Dickerson wrote in a January salon.com article that she had previously refrained from opining about the senator because "I didn't have the heart (or the stomach) to point out the obvious: Obama isn't black."

    " 'Black,' in our political and social reality, means those descended from West African slaves," Dickerson said.

    Walters, who was deputy campaign manager for Jesse Jackson in 1984 and the author of Black Presidential Politics in America, agreed that questions raised by Dickerson and others "is an important debate."

    "What people are really asking is, 'Can I trust this guy? Do I have confidence in this guy? Does he understand my situation, and therefore [is he] able to take my issues into the political system?'" Walters said.[/rquoter]
     
  2. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    politics in this country suck.
     
  3. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    I guess one good witch-hunt deserves another, but this is stupid. In other news, some of Obama's ancestors stole land from Native Americans. And others may have stole land from the Britons.
     
  4. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Member

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    I agree.
     
  5. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    What relevance does this have to obama being prez. Whats next, Slaves from 150 years are going to form a going to form a group stating obama is unfit to comman?
     
  6. basso

    basso Member
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    close- some of their descendants have stated obama isn't "black" enough since he doesn't descend from west african slaves.

    i agree tho, this should be a non-issue, just as should the romney issue, but that didn't stop the times from writing a big article on the latter.
     
  7. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    And yet you start a thread about it.

    [edit]...the truth is obama's african family were the ones who sold al sharpton to strom thurmond.
    [thanks huffPo]
     
  8. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    i'm just simply a freakin attention w****
     
  9. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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    Relax basso, your title as the most intellectually dishonest poster on this board is undisputed.

    And by the way, the only mention I've seen of the Romney issue is on a lefty blog (Atrios I believe) making the point that discussion of his ancestor's marriage customs was completely irrelavent.
     
    #9 gifford1967, Mar 2, 2007
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2007
  10. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    It sure does.
     
  11. basso

    basso Member
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    hey- the story's in a major US daily, in a city w/ a large black population. not some righty blog...
     
  12. Zac D

    Zac D Member

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    Got a link to that? I'd like to see it.
     
  13. FranchiseBlade

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    It wasn't a major story though, and everybody on this board didn't bother to post it, because we all saw that it was mostly irrelevant.

    Yet you, while claiming that both stories were not important, decided to post the Obama one.
     
  14. thegary

    thegary Member

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    this thread = huge smelly turd
     
  15. arno_ed

    arno_ed Member

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    Who cares? Please tell me this will not be an isue during any election :rolleyes:
     
  16. hotballa

    hotballa Contributing Member

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    it will during the primaries as there has been crticism from blacks that Obama's not "black enough" I don't know what that means, but considering Sharpton's recent discovery about his grandparents being slaves of Thurmond's ancestors, this might swing his backing to Clinton's corner, and whether you like him or not, Sharpton is a very strong and influential voice in the black community.
     
  17. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    fixed it for ya

    This same article also points out that 3 of McCain's ancestors had slaves as well. One having as much as 52 slaves. But clearly Basso does not have a problem with that.

    Basso, what do you have against Balack?
     
    #17 vlaurelio, Mar 2, 2007
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2007
  18. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    I blame Obama for chosing such a crappy set of parents.

    As a nice first step, Obama should apologize to himself. The white half should apologize to the black half for that whole slavery thingy.
     
  19. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    What the hell are you talking about? How would Sharpton's great-grandfather being a slave or Obama's great-great-great-great-grandfather owning slaves make him pick Hillary? Sharpton is many things, but he does have a certain political awareness about him and I don't see how either one of those things figures into his calculus.

    And why is it that I only hear the "Obama isn't black enough" refrain from the mouthpieces of the Right? Here's a given: Blacks will vote for the Democratic nominee in overwhelming numbers regardless of who it is. Here's another given: It's never too early for the Repubs to start their smear machine.

    Here's an article on a recent poll, that gives the lie to the wingnut talking point that Obama isn't "black" enough:

     
  20. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    In his book Barack talks about family reunions and holiday gatherings. It's funny because his sister is married to an Asian and he comments about how there's representation of pretty much every ethnicity when the families get together. blacks, whites, asians. Kind of a micromelting pot.
     

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