Obama to Attend Copenhagen and Commit the U.S. to Emissions Reduction Targets

MojoMan · Nov 28, 2009

Well, by now most people probably know that President Obama has changed his mind on this topic, and that he will attend the Copenhagen conference on his way to Olso, Norway to pick up his Nobel Peace Prize the next day.

That is enough to make most people roll their eyes all by itself.

But wait, there is more.

While at the Copenhagen conference, President Obama intends to commit the United States to reducing CO2 emissions cuts 17% from 2005 levels by 2020.

However, unfortunately for Barack Obama, our country is not a monarchy or a dictatorship, it is a constitution-based federal republic. As a result, Congress must pass off on this commitment before it has any actual binding force. He does not have the authority to make these commitments on behalf of the United States, and everyone at Copenhagen knows it.

Obama faces delicate balancing act on climate

WASHINGTON — Having vowed US climate action, President Barack Obama heads to Copenhagen needing to perform a delicate balancing act between huge expectations and the reality of a reluctant Congress.

Obama will travel to the Danish capital on December 9 to offer the first US plan to cut carbon emissions, officials said Wednesday, reviving hopes the closely watched meeting will succeed.

He will offer to curb US emissions by 17 percent from 2005 levels by 2020 -- less than calls by the European Union, Japan and UN scientists -- but the first concrete numbers put on the table by the world's largest economy and second biggest polluter.

Analysts warn this is a risky gamble for Obama because the goals -- with longer-term pledges of a 30 percent reduction in emissions by 2025, 42 percent by 2030 and 83 percent by 2050 -- are conditional on action in Congress.

"The administration has to walk a very careful balance here," Michael Levi of the Council on Foreign Relations told AFP.

"It's clearly trying to satisfy the European demand for an initial target in Copenhagen. It needs to do that in a way that ensures that it does not lose Congress in the process."

The announced targets to curb greenhouse gas emissions match those outlined in a bill passed by the House of Representatives in June.

But the Senate has yet to complete legislation to mandate cuts in the heat-trapping gases, amid staunch opposition from not just the Republican opposition but also Obama's fellow Democrats in coal manufacturing and oil-rich states.

Carol Browner, Obama's top climate policy aide, acknowledged that the administration's targets would have to be readjusted after Congress adopts a bill.
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The House cap and trade bill was pronounced dead on arrival the moment it was delivered to the Senate. Prior to the hacked email scandal (Climategate? Climaquiddick?), cap and trade legislation was probably not going anywhere regardless of any speech made by Obama at Copenhagen. But in the aftermath of Climategate, forget about it.

Why does Obama do stuff like this? He is just making an ass of himself and embarrassing our country by acting this way. No international leader who listens to this speech who has even half a brain will take him seriously. Obama cannot deliver on this pledge. Once again, Obama is sending a clear message that he is all hat and no cattle. He may not actually know it himself, but this is not how he really wants to be known by the international community.

Major · Nov 28, 2009

The opposition's primary selling point has been that it would be destructive to the US economy because China and India weren't on board, giving them a competitive advantage. It appears that Obama has gotten those countries to make significant commitments of their own - it will be interesting to see if/how this affects the opposition.

The difference between Obama and many other leaders is that he seems to be OK with trying but failing - ie, fighting the battles he thinks are worth fighting, rather than just the ones that are winnable. Who knows what the effect will be of it, but it's not necessarily a bad thing.

jo mama · Nov 28, 2009

mojoman - i noticed that you went all 'trader jorge' on us and disappeared from the 'giving thanks from trig' thread after your audacious claims that liberals hate sarah palin b/c she didnt abort her downs syndrome baby...

rather than going poof, would you care to provide proof to back-up your claims there?

tia!

YallMean · Nov 28, 2009

Before jump on Obama, you have to wait to see what type of promise he will be giving in Copenhagen.
Presidents and Congress have clashes and different opinions all the time and often are not shy letting public what they want to do. Since when that has made this country a dictator's country?

FranchiseBlade · Nov 28, 2009

Way to go Obama. Sounds great. I'm glad he's doing this.

pgabriel · Nov 28, 2009

wow, so much winginess in one original post. from "email gate" love the ted kennedy tragedy reference in there. stay classy wing nuts. to saying obama can't make a commitment because that would make him monarch like. at least you spared us and cramed it in one post

bigtexxx · Nov 28, 2009

MojoMan said:

Why does Obama do stuff like this? He is just making an ass of himself and embarrassing our country by acting this way. No international leader who listens to this speech who has even half a brain will take him seriously. Obama cannot deliver on this pledge. Once again, Obama is sending a clear message that he is all hat and no cattle. He may not actually know it himself, but this is not how he really wants to be known by the international community.
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because Obama thinks he's God.

Ubiquitin · Nov 28, 2009

Good for Obama. He makes me proud to be an American.

vlaurelio · Nov 28, 2009

bigtexxx said:

because Obama thinks he's God.
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you're absolutely right God is white

Landlord Landry · Nov 28, 2009

MojoMan said:

Why does Obama do stuff like this? He is just making an ass of himself and embarrassing our country by acting this way.
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because Obama is teh sucks and does the sex to Chinese.

rocketsjudoka · Nov 28, 2009

MojoMan said:

Why does Obama do stuff like this? He is just making an ass of himself and embarrassing our country by acting this way. No international leader who listens to this speech who has even half a brain will take him seriously. Obama cannot deliver on this pledge. Once again, Obama is sending a clear message that he is all hat and no cattle. He may not actually know it himself, but this is not how he really wants to be known by the international community.
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You do understand separation of powers does grant Obama the president the power to negotiate on behalf of the US? Now you are right that it is up to the Senate to ratify but its not a given that the Senate will not ratify. Also under Seperation of Powers the executive branch does have the power to implement regulations in regard to limiting emissions per executive order and / or existing law.

MojoMan · Nov 28, 2009

rocketsjudoka said:

You do understand separation of powers does grant Obama the president the power to negotiate on behalf of the US? Now you are right that it is up to the Senate to ratify but its not a given that the Senate will not ratify. Also under Seperation of Powers the executive branch does have the power to implement regulations in regard to limiting emissions per executive order and / or existing law.
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You are talking about the process for ratifying a treaty. Obama is not proposing provisions for a treaty. He is proposing a unilateral commitment to reduce CO2 emissions by the United States of America.

As discussed in the article in the OP, what Obama is effectively committing to is the cap and trade legislation already passed by the House of Representatives, which was declared dead on arrival once it was delivered to the Senate. It barely even passed in the House, for crying out loud.

This is just a vain effort by Barack Obama to try to make a show of good faith to the international advocates of climate change by committing us to something he knows he cannot deliver on. It is an act that is completely superficial and entirely without substance. And all of the international leaders who will be at the Copenhagen conference will know it.

He does a great disservice to both himself and our country by knowingly making promises that he and everyone in attendance at this meeting knows he cannot deliver on.

YallMean · Nov 28, 2009

MojoMan said:

He does a great disservice to both himself and our country by knowingly making promises that he and everyone in attendance at this meeting knows he cannot deliver on.
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Is he going to sign a treaty like the Berne convention or WTO agreement?

Yeah, Mr. President you are doing this country a grave disservice by saying something not yet passed by Congress. Yeah, you better not talk about anything if Congress doesn't give you a nod.

rocketsjudoka · Nov 28, 2009

MojoMan said:

You are talking about the process for ratifying a treaty. Obama is not proposing provisions for a treaty. He is proposing a unilateral commitment to reduce CO2 emissions by the United States of America.
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Again whether it is a treaty or not Obama does have the power to negotiate on behalf of the US. That is not monarchy but a power granted Constitutionally.

As discussed in the article in the OP, what Obama is effectively committing to is the cap and trade legislation already passed by the House of Representatives, which was declared dead on arrival once it was delivered to the Senate. It barely even passed in the House, for crying out loud.
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Maybe maybe not. The legislation hasn't been voted or debated on yet in the Senate. Its a little bit premature to declare it dead dontcha think?

This is just a vain effort by Barack Obama to try to make a show of good faith to the international advocates of climate change by committing us to something he knows he cannot deliver on. It is an act that is completely superficial and entirely without substance. And all of the international leaders who will be at the Copenhagen conference will know

He does a great disservice to both himself and our country by knowingly making promises that he and everyone in attendance at this meeting knows he cannot deliver on.
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And perhaps you can tell me who is going to win the BCS national championship and by what score since you have seen the future.

I agree that the Cap and Trade legislation faces and uphill battle but it is far from dead at the sametime we don't know for sure what Obama is going propose at Copenhagen.

rocketsjudoka · Nov 28, 2009

Also just to add that this isn't unprecedented for Presidents to pledge the US to action in an international forum beform Congress has voted on that issue. Bush 41 committed the US to push Iraq out of Kuwait by passing the UNSC resolution on action months before the US Congress voted on Authorization of Force.

MojoMan · Dec 4, 2009

Obama is being warned by Senator Jim Webb (D-Va.) against making any commitments to emissions standards in Copenhagen. He would be wise to heed Senator Webb's advice on this matter.

Webb warns Obama on Copenhagen trip

President Barack Obama should be wary of committing the U.S. to any binding climate standards at a global conference this month without congressional input, one senator warned.

Sen. Jim Webb (D-Va.) sent a letter to the president late last week warning Obama against agreeing to any binding climate change agreement during a conference in Copenhagen, Denmark this month.

"I would like to express my concern regarding reports that the Administration may believe it has the unilateral power to commit the government of the United States to certain standards that may be agreed upon at the upcoming [conference]," Webb wrote to Obama.

"Although details have not been made available, recent statements by Special Envoy on Climate Change Todd Stern indicate that negotiators may be intending to commit the United States to a nationwide emission reduction program," Webb added. "As you well know from your time in the Senate, only specific legislation agreed upon in the Congress, or a treaty ratified by the Senate, could actually create such a commitment on behalf of our country."

The Virginia senator has long been a proponent of asserting the role for Congress in assenting to international agreements, and had advanced similar arguments in the Bush administration, during President Geroge W. Bush's work on the Iraq Security Agreements.

World leaders will gather in Copenhagen to hash out details and move toward a global protocol to address global warming challenges. Lawmakers have not been able to act to move their own climate bills through Congress in the run-up to the conference.
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Of course the people attending the Copenhagen conference have access to this information the same as anyone else does. So it should be assumed they are aware of this development.

SamFisher · Dec 4, 2009

This post is addressed to the individual posting as Clutchfans.net user "MojoMan"

Read the Constitution, son.

MojoMan · Dec 4, 2009

SamFisher said:

This post is addressed to the individual posting as Clutchfans.net user "MojoMan"

Read the Constitution, son.
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You need to contact Senator Jim Webb (D-Va.) and get him to read it.

Oh wait, he has read it. Nevermind.

rocketsjudoka · Dec 4, 2009

I second Sam's comment.

Mojoman said:

However, unfortunately for Barack Obama, our country is not a monarchy or a dictatorship, it is a constitution-based federal republic. As a result, Congress must pass off on this commitment before it has any actual binding force. He does not have the authority to make these commitments on behalf of the United States, and everyone at Copenhagen knows it.
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Now I doubt Sen. Webb is asserting that Obama is acting like a dictator or a monarch. He is correct in asserting that Congress has a say in any laws or treaty that might be passed regarding emmission regulations but the Consitution does grant the President the power to negotiate on behalf of the US. Congress cannot do that.

AntiSonic · Dec 7, 2009

More "do as we say not as we do" from the Religious Left:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/co...mos-140-private-planes-and-caviar-wedges.html

Copenhagen climate summit: 1,200 limos, 140 private planes and caviar wedges

Copenhagen is preparing for the climate change summit that will produce as much carbon dioxide as a town the size of Middlesbrough.

By Andrew Gilligan
Published: 10:55PM GMT 05 Dec 2009

On a normal day, Majken Friss Jorgensen, managing director of Copenhagen's biggest limousine company, says her firm has twelve vehicles on the road. During the "summit to save the world", which opens here tomorrow, she will have 200.

"We thought they were not going to have many cars, due to it being a climate convention," she says. "But it seems that somebody last week looked at the weather report."

Ms Jorgensen reckons that between her and her rivals the total number of limos in Copenhagen next week has already broken the 1,200 barrier. The French alone rang up on Thursday and ordered another 42. "We haven't got enough limos in the country to fulfill the demand," she says. "We're having to drive them in hundreds of miles from Germany and Sweden."

And the total number of electric cars or hybrids among that number? "Five," says Ms Jorgensen. "The government has some alternative fuel cars but the rest will be petrol or diesel. We don't have any hybrids in Denmark, unfortunately, due to the extreme taxes on those cars. It makes no sense at all, but it's very Danish."

The airport says it is expecting up to 140 extra private jets during the peak period alone, so far over its capacity that the planes will have to fly off to regional airports – or to Sweden – to park, returning to Copenhagen to pick up their VIP passengers.

And this being Scandinavia, even the prostitutes are doing their bit for the planet. Outraged by a council postcard urging delegates to "be sustainable, don't buy sex," the local sex workers' union – they have unions here – has announced that all its 1,400 members will give free intercourse to anyone with a climate conference delegate's pass. The term "carbon dating" just took on an entirely new meaning.

At least the sex will be C02-neutral. According to the organisers, the eleven-day conference, including the participants' travel, will create a total of 41,000 tonnes of "carbon dioxide equivalent", equal to the amount produced over the same period by a city the size of Middlesbrough.

The temptation, then, is to dismiss the whole thing as a ridiculous circus. Many of the participants do not really need to be here. And far from "saving the world," the world's leaders have already agreed that this conference will not produce any kind of binding deal, merely an interim statement of intent.

Instead of swift and modest reductions in carbon – say, two per cent a year, starting next year – for which they could possibly be held accountable, the politicians will bandy around grandiose targets of 80-per-cent-plus by 2050, by which time few of the leaders at Copenhagen will even be alive, let alone still in office.

Even if they had agreed anything binding, past experience suggests that the participants would not, in fact, feel bound by it. Most countries – Britain excepted – are on course to break the modest pledges they made at the last major climate summit, in Kyoto.

And as the delegates meet, they do so under a shadow. For the first time, not just the methods but the entire purpose of the climate change agenda is being questioned. Leaked emails showing key scientists conspiring to fix data that undermined their case have boosted the sceptic lobby. Australia has voted down climate change laws. Last week's unusually strident attack by the Energy Secretary, Ed Miliband, on climate change "saboteurs" reflected real fear in government that momentum is slipping away from the cause.

The hot air this week will be massive, the whole proceedings eminently mockable, but it would be far too early to write off this conference as a failure.
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