Obama quits!...

What an incredible non-story. The fact is that Obama is trying to get ready for the general election. He formally quit the church in an attempt to derail the things said at that church from being raised as an issue in the general.

Who knows what, if any, impact this will have?

 

Perfect timing. With the McClellan book and the RBC meeting dominating the headlines, this will be buried.

 

In hindsight, Obama could have really helped himself by getting ahead of this story by pulling a playbook out of the Republican spin machine and very strongly denounced the whole church from the beginning. But frankly, I personally hold Obama with higher regard for the way he handled this. He tried his very best to remain loyal to his longtime friend Wright. Obama clearly wasn't just pandering to pure political motivation on this issue. But then Wright went completely loco with his public appearances when he KNEW it would politically hurt Obama. Wright was obviously motivated by money he received for the speaking appearances despite that he knew it would hurt Obama. Wright is a peice of crap and didn't return any of the loyalty that Obama showed him.

Until we see some proof that Obama personally supports the views these guys are spewing at Trinity, then I actually hold Obama in higher regard because of this. Unfortunately, many people won't see my view.

 

What would be your reason for attending a church for 20 years, whose views were controversial to the mainstream public?
You don't think it remotely reflects what Obama thinks about things? Wright was angry because Obama wouldn't stand up for the long time indoctrination that the church was called out on. Whose the loyal one, here?

It all boils down to the fact that there is much doubt on this Obama character.

 

I believe that Obama doesn't attend church to get political insight. I think his attendance was for spiritual reasons. It might help him understand people's thoughts and frustrations when the politics enter into it.

Again for 20 years this kind of stuff hasn't been going on. It happened on the rare occasion several times over the course of 20 years.

It's like showing a crash at a Disney World ride on youtube over and over again, asking how anybody can be crazy enough to go and visit Disney World. The answer is because most of the time those crashes don't happen.

What in Obama's career in public service, politics, and this campaign has shown that he does share the more extreme political views discussed in this church? I have seen zero evidence of that.

 

I really like Obama and I find myself somewhat persuaded by this logic. I can't imagine NOT hearing these thoughts. I left a church I was an elected elder in because I couldn't square the actions of the church with the Gospel. I didn't feel like that was particularly "big" of me...just felt like it was best for my family and my own understanding of what I believe God is calling us to be.

I'm persuaded by Wright's messages that America...particularly leadership, which has been overwhelmingly white, has been ridiculously hypocritical. And I understand the temptation to villify that. And then I read the Gospel again and am reminded that God loves and forgives those I might be tempted to villify as much as He does me.

Not trying to be sanctimonious...I'd just hope for more from a church and its leaders.

 

Of the 20 years he attended, people only found ONE speech from Wright that was contraversial, from the best that I can see. Subsequently, Wright went on a public binge, where I presume he was angry with Obama AND being paid for the appearance, and then he said some more contraversial things.

So I have to conclude that I OFTEN keep the company of friends and associates who don't 100% represent my personal views. In fact, I've had close friends say some really really stupid $h!t. ...but they are still my friends. I'm sure my friends feel the same about me. I am pretty liberal and I've got at least two friends who are die hard republicans who have radically differing views than me. We get a long in social situations very well but their views don't represent me. Furthermore, what kind of friend would I be if I dumped their long standing friendship because they said one thing I don't agree with. A crappy friend and I'd be a lonely person.

So again, until somebody digs up something where Obama himself was making racially divided statements, attributing somebody else's views on Obama is nothing more than politicians trying to see how many "sheep"-like Americans will fall for this empty scare tactic. They clearly got you worried about it.

 

For me, I view an avid church-goer as someone who uses the model of that church, to form the basis of what they think to be right and wrong. Church and state inevitably overlap in a sense, based on mindset that is taught, people's morals.
I do know, personally, that if you are a religious person, you'll get all sorts of people who want to trounce you for even being remotely religious, stating that you stand by certain views based on faith.
How avid was Obama? No way to be certain. But the seed of doubt is there. He'll be doubted by other people of faith (different faith) AND those who are not.
It's an issue.

 

I guess Obama could have attended simply because he was a friend of Wright. Possibly true. I don't usually consider church a gathering just for the sake of being social, but who knows? Maybe Obama simply wanted to be associated with a "Christian" organization and wasn't really privy to what was being taught? Who knows?

 

I can't disagree that politically it's an issue. ...it's enough to take notice ...but it's not enough, IMO, to base any sort of opinion. If we subsequently learn that Obama himself made similar comments or some sort of smoking gun proof that he supports the comments Wright made, then we got a big problem. But just because this one guy made a charged speach with some regrettable language doesn't automatically reflect on Obama.

It's just something we should all acknowledge and file away in our brain in case more things come to light. Until then, this is a non-story.

 

You can certainly learn a lot about how somebody views the world by the sermons that they choose to listen to. People do not tend to choose a church when the views espoused by that church are repugnant to the individual.

I'm not sure you can really know that. It has happened on the rare occasion that has been caught on tape. None of us really know what the ordinary sermon in that church has been.

No...a crash at a theme park demonstrates that given the opportunity, machinery can and will fail. A pastor making outrageous comments does not have to happen. It was a choice on the pastor's part...based on his beliefs.

Who has known before the ceremony that their ex spouse was a nutjob? What evidence did they have of that? Obama may have toned himself way down knowing that he would run for President.

 

Rare occasion? As best as I know, he made only ONE contraversial speech.

The only thing you can know for sure is what has been presented to you. IMO, it a leap to ASSUME that it happens all the time.

Assumption #1: Wright makes these sorts of speeches frequently.

Assumption #2: Obama agrees with everything Wright says.

As long as you realise that you are forming your opinion based on an ASSUMPTION of yet another ASSUMPTION, then you are welcome to your own opinion. But just be truthful with yourself about how many leaps you have to make to draw your conclusion.


The only FACT you have is a man not named Obama made one contraversial speech many years ago. IMO, that isn't enough to disqualify him as a candidate. ...but that's just me.

 

Even the most controversial of the sermons made good points along with the crazy stuff.

I can't know for sure, but having read some of the other sermons, and at least one of the crazy sermons in full, as well as the testimony of other members of the church, the idea was that it wasn't always crazy-town sermons like that.

Like machinery people aren't perfect. They fail to. I don't think it is wrong to question, or wrong for Obama to leave if he didn't like the sermons.

But what is wrong is to just assume that every sermon was point after point of hatred of American and divisive rhetoric, based on a few minutes out of a guy's 30 year career.

 

I have left a church because of their political views or at least the views expressed by the pastor during service.

I didn't like it and sought a church with a pure spiritual message.

I have heard that these views are pretty common to black churches.

 

What do you mean, "given the opportunity"?

Last time I checked, laws of physics don't fluctuate beyond quantum uncertainty, which is irrelevant to Space Mountain crashing to the ground. Humans are the ones making the errors at theme parks... design specifications, maintenance, tolerance, material quality etc.

Point being, theme park crashes don't have to happen, either.

 

Loyalty to a church one attends, despite some disparity in what one might believe in personally parallels with loyalty to a political party imho.

So I could see Obama attending a church where he wasn't in lock-step with the reverend. Some of the Republicans on the board aren't even in lock-step with Bush on every policy.

 

I never said that I made either of those assumptions. I said that we do not know. Big, big difference.

I never said it was wrong. He did stay for 20 years and only left when he thought it might damage his Presidential bid.

I don't recall anybody saying that everything Wright said was nuts. He did, however, say the hateful stuff...that horse is out of the barn.

What a dumb thing to say. If you have a piece of machinery, and run it consistently over a period of time, at some point an unforeseen malfunction can and will occur. It is the nature of machinery. It happens with jetliners (landing gear fails to deploy, etc). Even with routine maintenance, your car will eventually break down. The difference with roller coaster equipment is that when it malfunctions, people tend to have a bad result more often than not.

 

You say it's the nature of machinery and I completely disagree. The nature of machinery says it follows absolute, known laws. If people never screw up a machine, when to change that part, when that part is defective, when the design is sound- it will never fail... because the laws of physics are consistent. What you're talking about are practicality, logistical, monetary considerations and human error. There is a difference between that and a machine "waiting for an opportunity". Unforeseen malfunctions are human failures. Everything is knowable in the realm of theme park rides, and theme park managers choose your level of risk.

It's not dumb, it's anal... but correct.

 

I know this is all way off topic and totally academic. But usually when these accidents happen it's usually the fault of guests who weren't following the safety regulations. They tried to stand up, or didn't buckle their safety belts, or whatever.