I am not a Republican, so none of that interests me. As far as I am concerned, the Republican party is the best option available for pursuing and implementing the largely conservative political principles that I believe in. To the extent that the Republican party fails to serve those ends, it is broken and need of reform. To make this as clear as I can, the Republican party is here to serve me and others like me, not the other way around. To the extent Republican party leaders have been under the impression that they are driving the agenda, and the Republican party members take marching orders from them, they have been in error. It is high time that Republican party leaders either get a grip on this reality, or beat back to their home districts just as fast as they can get there. Many of these people place an unreasonably high value on the public services that they provide. Most of these people are not anywhere close to as special as they seem to think they are. But I have not called myself a Republican since 1990, so your small-minded efforts to associate me with that label are just misguided and wrong. I am largely conservative in my political beliefs, so if you feel a need to associate me with a label, that is the one you need to use.
The Democrats do not appear to have the votes for plan A (pass the Senate bill in the House, and then make changes in the Senate using 'reconciliation'). And they do not appear to be interested in President Obama's plan B. Is there a plan C? If so, does anyone know what it is? Because I sure don't. The following article from ABC speaks to this in more detail: [RQUOTER]Is There a Plan C?: 'We Are NOT Doing a Scaled-Back Bill,' Says House Democratic Source Before House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., brings the Senate Democrats' health care reform legislation to the floor for a vote, she and her team are currently assessing whether or not they have the votes to pass it. They need 217 votes, a majority of the 432 members currently in Congress. They don’t have them right now. If the House doesn’t have the votes, senior White House officials say they would like Congress to pursue a more modest health care reform bill. But there seems little desire for that among House Democrats, who would like to focus on jobs. “We are NOT doing scaled back bill,” a senior House leadership source emails ABC News. When Pelosi last brought health care reform legislation to the floor last November, there were 435 members of the House, and she needed a majority – 218. It passed 220-215. But since then, four of the bill’s supporters have gone away. Rep. John Murtha, D-Penn., died. Rep. Anh “Joseph” Cao, R-Louisiana, said he wouldn’t vote for the bill on final passage. Rep. Robert Wexler, D-Florida, resigned. And Rep. Neil Abercrombie, D-Hawaii, has left Congress to run for governor. His resignation is effective today, and will be official Sunday. That means Pelosi needs a majority of the 432 members of the House – 217. And assuming those who voted for the House bill vote for the Senate bill – a risky assumption, given the current political winds – she is starting off with less than that, 216. One of the bill’s supporters, Rep. Brad Ellsworth, D-Ind., has announced a run for Senate, making his vote possibly less assured. Rep. Marion Berry, D-Ark., announced his retirement with more than a little bitterness in his voice about how the White House seemed nonchalant about his concerns that health care reform might hurt Democrats’ reelection prospects as happened in 1994. How would he vote? “He has not made a decision on that yet,” a Berry spokesman says. Three possible pick-ups: House Democrats who voted “No” in November, but are retiring: Reps. Bart Cooper and John Tanner of Tennessee, and Rep. Brian Baird of Washington state. Two other “No” votes -- Reps. Artur Davis, D-Ala., and Charlie Melancon, D-Louisiana -- are also stepping down, but they’re running for statewide office (governor and senator, respectively) so flipping them to “Yes” will be a tall order.[/RQUOTER]
I think it's noble that Obama is trying to cut costs and insure 30 million Americans. But I think he will fail. There are too many interests that will defeat him, and the public isn't with him. They don't understand his argument and fear it. I think things will need to get a lot worse before it gets better. When people realize that the employer insurance program they have really isn't all that much security - when that realization enters into the American psyche, then reform can happen. Right now, Obama should focus on job creation and slashing the deficit.
What I don't understand is a lot of people seem to just not want reform. Do they think this problem will just fix itself? At least the Dems are talking about it, arguing about it, researching, etc. Making an effort on this ticking timebomb. The GOP want to move slowly and believe they're ideas are better but other than tort reform, which many states already have in place and the CBO has said won't make a dent, they offer little else. Their bill was a slap in the face to the American people. We all know this situation is unsustainable but half the country doens't seem to give a damn. The whole thing is really depressing.
Can anyone please post some proof of this? I’ve been hearing this talking point for a while now that America doesn't agree that our healthcare system needs to be reformed, but I've never really seen anything to substantiate it.
The public does believe that our health care system needs to be reformed, but they do not believe that what the Democrats are proposing will achieve the objectives that they think constitute true reform. Deny it if you must, but the American people do not support the Democrats current proposals on this issue.
As I said, deny it if you must.... But with all the articles and links that have been posted in this very thread, you cannot honestly claim that you are unaware or uninformed.
no, I know you keep saying it, but I just don't see any proof that it's true. Polls show Americans want healthcare reform, they show Americans want congress to keep working and do something, they want a public option. I just don't get this whole meme that Americans aren't on the side of the president and reform. that's all
Yeah, I know you don't. So, with that in mind, here is a video for you to listen to: <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wwGVDmEsi8A&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wwGVDmEsi8A&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Perhaps this will resonate with you. If not, then I guess you are just on your own.
I'm 100% sure the majority of Republicans have no interest in health care reform whatsoever. They just want to delay this whole process until at least the mid-term elections to try and embarrass the Democrats as much as possible in order to get back control of Congress. That's why all you heard last night from the Republicans was "start over" or "scrap the bill" or whatever other nonsense they were spewing about killing the current bill. Yes, they like to pretend that they want some sort of reform because it would just be too cruel to say otherwise, but their usual response of "tort reform" is just not enough.
If you keep repeating that enough times, or at least keep listening to it enough times, then perhaps that will give you some sort of consolation on this issue. But honestly what you have said is not accurate, and the tapes of he healthcare summit were reasonably good proof of that. But if it makes you feel better, then keep it up.
Then why did they do absolutely nothing in regards to health care reform when they had control of the House and the presidency?
Here's what the polls show (and fairly consistently): * People are opposed to the Senate Bill * When told all the individual components of the Senate Bill without being told it's the Senate Bill, they substantially support each provision * Last summer, people strongly supported the Obama plan, despite him not having a specific plan * People strongly support the public option * When asked what the public option is, few people know * People believe Republicans are being the obstructionists * People trust Dems far more than Republicans on health care * People think Dems should be the ones to compromise with Republicans * People are mixed on the use of "reconciliation" * People strongly support the use of "majority rule" to pass a bill in the Senate If you think this shows anything of any value, you're deluding yourself. There is simply no effective health care polling out there because most people simply aren't informed about the details of the issue.
Exactly. Mojoman knows all of this, but would rather just try and frame it in a way that allows him to keep up his own viewpoint rather than face the facts, at least in a public forum.
I agree to a certain extent although I've been saying this for a while, stop talking about the uninsured. that's where the public loses interests, of course people won't lower prices. but they don't care about people without insurance secondly, these stories about families going bankrupt, not being able to get insurance, etc. no one cares unless it has affected them or someone close to them
It all comes down to the uninsured that and the overconsumption of services. But that come downs to the GOP talking point boogeymen "mandate" and "rationing". Like the CEO of Wellpoint said in the other thread I started: At the same time, the tough economy is forcing more healthy people to drop their individual insurance. That leaves a higher concentration of sick people who generate medical claims in their risk pools. All this leads to premium increases that could average 25 percent. http://www.kansascity.com/2010/02/21/1763389/diving-into-wellpoints-health.html This is straight form the horses mouth but people still don't get the relation between the uninsured costing the insured more.
I do agree with this but they are a little late on this talking point, they never really explained how mandates benefit the whole system until recently
And no matter the noise you hear from that side, republicans will continue to lie and claim interest in healthcare reform, when it abundantly clear they will continue to bog down the process with no real interest in reform at all. They WANT the status quo. I say bring it! Make them filibuster. Make them stand in front of America for days debating why a pregnant woman should be denied health insurance because of a preexisting condition. Make them justify insurance companies dropping people's coverage because they became to expensive to cover. Make them justify their positions to the country. I say it's time to put the public option back in and pass the most robust bill you can through reconciliation. Democrats will be remembered for once again moving a more humane America forward. And as the president said, let’s see what Americans think in November.
