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Obama in 2001, Wealth Redistribution, Warren Court

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Oct 26, 2008.

  1. basso

    basso Member
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    apparently, the warren court was "not liberal enough."

    <object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iivL4c_3pck&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0xcc2550&color2=0xe87a9f&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iivL4c_3pck&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0xcc2550&color2=0xe87a9f&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>
     
  2. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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  3. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    I was just about to post this. Can you believe what he says here?

    Obama is arguing to redistribute wealth from whites to blacks. Listen to the tape. This is unreal.

    The Joe the Plumber incident blew the lid off of Obama's intentions from the beginning -- come across as a moderate candidate who isn't focused on race. What lies beneath this facade? A race-focused socialist with Marxist wealth redistribution beliefs. This scares me and it should scare you.

    Do not let Obama trick you into thinking that he has any other motive than to redistribute wealth to the inner city. Listen to him candidly describe his true beliefs on this tape. It's unbelievable.
     
  4. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    This video has gone viral VERY FAST. People, understand that here is Obama, in a rare moment of candor, ADMITTING that he wants to redistribute wealth to blacks and then scheming of ways to do so.

    Here's the transcript:

    TRANSCRIPT:

    MODERATOR: Good morning and welcome to Odyssey on WBEZ Chicago 91.5 FM and we’re joined by Barack Obama who is Illinois State Senator from the 13th district and senior lecturer in the law school at the University of Chicago.

    OBAMA: If you look at the victories and failures of the civil rights movement and its litigation strategy in the court, I think where it succeeded was to vest formal rights in previously dispossessed peoples. So that I would now have the right to vote, I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order and as long as I could pay for it I’d be okay.

    But the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and sort of more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society. And to that extent as radical as people tried to characterize the Warren court, it wasn’t that radical. It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as it’s been interpreted, and the Warren court interpreted it in the same way that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. It says what the states can’t do to you, it says what the federal government can’t do to you, but it doesn’t say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf. And that hasn’t shifted. One of the I think tragedies of the civil rights movement was because the civil rights movement became so court focused, I think that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributed change and in some ways we still suffer from that.

    MODERATOR: Let’s talk with Karen. Good morning, Karen, you’re on Chicago Public Radio.

    KAREN: Hi. The gentleman made the point that the Warren court wasn’t terribly radical with economic changes. My question is, is it too late for that kind of reparative work economically and is that that the appropriate place for reparative economic work to take place – the court – or would it be legislation at this point?

    OBAMA: Maybe I’m showing my bias here as a legislator as well as a law professor, but I’m not optimistic about bringing about major redistributive change through the courts. The institution just isn’t structured that way.

    You just look at very rare examples during the desegregation era the court was willing to for example order changes that cost money to a local school district. The court was very uncomfortable with it. It was very hard to manage, it was hard to figure out. You start getting into all sorts of separation of powers issues in terms of the court monitoring or engaging in a process that essentially is administrative and takes a lot of time.

    The court’s just not very good at it and politically it’s very hard to legitimize opinions from the court in that regard. So I think that although you can craft theoretical justifications for it legally. Any three of us sitting here could come up with a rational for bringing about economic change through the courts.
     
  5. Grizzled

    Grizzled Member

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    I must say that it’s been very interesting to see these two come further and further out of the closet with respect to their true feelings about blacks.

    I’m sure it doesn’t need to be said, but that video fundamentally misrepresents what Obama is saying. Wealth redistribution is a term that refers to things like taxation, minimum wages, incentives, handouts, etc. Every government does it, and every government should do it, but some like to focus on paying off the rich (most recently a number of failed bankers) while others want to help the less fortunate to become more productive citizens, something which benefits not only the people directly being helped but also everyone in society through increased productivity and lower crime rates and social welfare rates.
     
  6. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Grizzled, this isn't about race. It's about Obama's VALIDATION of his Marxist economic principles. This is a candid moment from Obama's recent past where he reveals his true feelings on the topic. This is about reparations. REPARATIONS. The guy is truly a Marxist, and all of the parallels and associations with Frank Marshall Davis, Bill Ayers, Rashid Khalidi and all of the other socialist influences are starting to make perfect sense.
     
  7. dandorotik

    dandorotik Member

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    So what? I've worked in the careers industry for many, many years, and I've had at least 5 clients who have had to sue potential employers because they were discriminated against at the hiring stage due to their race (e.g. didn't get the job, white counterpart did who was less qualified, minority candidate sued and won). Others have been paid less than their white counterparts for a long time (that includes women, too). Nowadays, not as much of an issue. Employers themselves are wanting to champion Diversity as a big thing- so guess who's redistributing the wealth? Corporations who hire more minorities into management positions (which is on the executive track). We don't have to worry about Obama redistributing wealth to African-Americans- the Fortune 500 group is going to take care of that themselves. Wouldn't that be the best example of the "redistribution of wealth," even more so than taxes?

    So, maybe you need to focus your efforts on warning employers to stop hiring and promoting minorities into positions of power. Wait- you might have a hard time doing that, as well, because the number of minorities in C-level executive positions is rising at a rapid rate. Diversity, diversity, diversity. The #1 evil word for right-wing fanatics.
     
  8. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    Thanks, Grizzled. I'm not sure basso is showing any cards with respect to race. He is motivated (I think he'd agree) by a significant fear of what liberals, as represented by Obama, could do to America.

    Note, I'm typing that, but those aren't my words. I just get the sense that you'd get the same types of threads from basso if Obama was Irish or something. Sure, there'd be things about how an Irish president would drink too much on the job, have loyalties to the emerald isle, etc, making him seem anti-Irish. But it would be everything and the kitchen sink to protect our precious bodily fluids from a horrible, drooling liberal.

    But anyway, yes, it's quite true that the video intentionally distorts what Obama is saying. I'm sure it's "going viral" among committed McCain voters who are motivated by a well-stoked hatred of Obama. Otherwise, meh.
     
  9. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Well, it just got an ALL CAPS headline on the Drudgereport.

    People, this is a BOMBSHELL. The guy is a freaking socialist, reared by Ayers, Frank Marshall Wright, Khalidi, and Jeremiah Wright.
     
  10. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Who would have guessed that an African American socialist with ties to domestic terrorists... and who had a racist, anti-semitic pastor for 20 years... and who publicly states that he wants to “spread the wealth around” and "redistribute wealth" would be on a ballot for President....

    Is this tape a game changer? Time will tell...
     
  11. The Joker

    The Joker Member

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    I don't know why anyone would be surprised by this... If people actually did their homework, his entire political career wealth distribution has been part of his ideology. A, in my opinion, bigger deal would be the tax Mr. Obama wants to place on the U.S. to fight foreign poverty. Are we now going to start taxing U.S citizens for foreign poverty when our own economy and our own citizens are suffering?
     
  12. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Obviously, some of the conversation is removed. One does not go from an introduction to discussing Supreme Court issues without a "Hi, glad to be here," or even a first question from the interviewer.

    Even so, anyone with half a brain can listen and read Obama's answer as he intended, which is a fairly pedestrian scholarly interpretation of the SC's role in civil rights... notice he says the SC stayed well within the framework of the Constitution and the role defined for it... he calls it the "essential contraints that were placed by the founding fathers"... and the fact that he uses those words blows a hole in the fallacy presented by basso and TJ. Obama goes on to note that the Civil Rights movement spent too much time focusing on the legal issues and not enough on the everyday issues.

    Notice he says:

    Forgiving the transcribing winger who knows nothing of commas, you can plainly see here that Obama is saying that there was not enough invested in changing communities and so minorities became trapped. This is not radical, but very much in line with what Obama has said in the past about people taking responsibility and working together to bring about change. The redistributive part he's talking about is not the bogeyman of basso and TJ's fervid imagination, but an effort aimed at better housing, better education, better families, etc. Indeed, he's talking about growing the middle class.

    The second passage makes the same point... that it is not the role of the courts to manage such complex issues and that effective change must start with the community and society must be brought to the point where it wants to change... a court order does not do it.

    And then, of course, we're cut off in mid answer. It'll be interesting to see what the entire interview says, but again, it's clear to anyone not on the nut of W that Obama's saying while it can be theoretically justified, that doesn't mean the courts should demand it and in fact, they were intentionally set up to make it extremely difficult to do so.

    Every answer Obama gives here is in keeping with the Constitutional history of our country. His interpretation of the Civil Rights era is quickly becoming the norm and consider the fact that he thinks that way enabled him to move beyond the traditional constituency one would have previously expected... and it's, ironically, conservative (the legit kind, not that practiced by basso and TJ), for he's telling minorities to not rely on the courts, but make your own world better.

    That this would even be considered to be what basso and TJ want it to be is symptomatic of the current Republican Party's dependency on lying to the American people and their almost comical anti-intellectualism.

    Pathetic.
     
  13. Mulder

    Mulder Member

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    Grasping

    @


    [​IMG]

    Say this phrase... get used to it. You are going to hear it for awhile:

    President Barack Obama
     
  14. ling ling

    ling ling Member

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    This is getting play in the morning news channels.
     
  15. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  16. Faos

    Faos Member

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    Here comes the October surprise.
     
  17. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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    basso, you've said several times that in part your support for McCain/Palin rests on the emphasis they will place on helping the "special needs" population and that this is an important issue for you because of your autistic son.

    Do you have any idea much it costs to educate "special needs" kids in the public school system?

    Let me give you a little perspective. I was a teacher in Level 5 special education facility in Baltimore for a number of years. Our population included autistic kids. School districts from all over the region sent students to our school to get services they could not provide. This is mandated by law. At the time, the minimum amount that school districts had to pay for sending a kid to our school was about $30,000/year. Depending on the kid's issues their "tuition" paid for by their school district could be double or triple that.

    Are you telling me that you oppose redistributing wealth from tax payers that do not have special needs kids, to those that do?
     
  18. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Hey Jorge!

    Remember your little prediction about Jews flocking to McCain. Seems you were wrong about that too.


    New Gallup poll shows 75% of U.S. Jews plan to vote Obama

    A new poll released by the Gallup organization on Thursday shows Jewish voters favor Barack Obama over John McCain by more than 3 to 1, with 74% saying they will vote for Obama over 22% for McCain.

    The poll, which has interviewed over 650 Jewish registered voters each month since June, shows American Jews growing increasingly comfortable with Obama since July, when the Illinois Senator tied up the Democratic Party nomination. The poll shows support for McCain among Jews stood at a high of 34% in June, before beginning its downward turn in July after Obama's nomination.

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1031176.html

    Are you ever right about anything?
     
  19. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Sam, Mulder, mcmark -- Why is it so important to you that you avoid the topic? Well, it's pretty obvious -- you've been defending your candidate for NOT being a socialist for quite some time, only to have that defense fall flat on its face when Obama himself declares his lust for redistribution of income and it's caught on tape.

    Man it must suck to not even know your own candidate well enough to mount a defense.
     
  20. FranchiseBlade

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    What really sucks is that you have no idea what socialism is, or that any tax plan including Bush's and McCain's involves redistribution of the wealth.

    The difference is that McCain redistributes the wealth to the already wealthy.

    I expected more from you.
     

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