Milli Vanilli anyone? <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8M6x1H08aFc&rel=1&border=0"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8M6x1H08aFc&rel=1&border=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent"width="425" height="355"></embed></object> http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/did_obama_plagiarize_clinton_t.html
So what happens to a campaign based on words when people find out that those words are other people's words?! Did Obama just get exposed for being a total fraud? btw -- longer snippets of the two respective speeches can be found at the link below. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/obama-echoes-de.html Obama Echoes Deval Patrick...Again February 17, 2008 4:18 PM The charismatic, brilliant, inspiring black politician came to the stage to address the latest attack from his white female opponent. "Her dismissive point, and I hear it a lot from her staff, is all I have to offer is words," he said. "Just words. "'We holds these truths to be self-evident,'" he continued as the crowd began to cheer and applaud, "'that all men are created equal' -- just words. Just words." The applause increased. "'We have nothing to fear but fear itself,'" the pol said. "Just words. 'Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.' Just words,'" he said, switching effortlessly from our Founding Fathers to FDR to JFK. And then, the piece de resistance: "'I have a dream' -- just words," he said. Barack Obama rebutting Hillary Clinton circa 2008? Nope. Deval Patrick, ultimately successful Massachusetts gubernatorial candidate, responding to then-Lt. Gov. Kerry Healey in October 2006. Of course, if you mistook the speech for one from Obama, you can be forgiven -- just this weekend Obama said something quite similar. "Don't tell me words don't matter," Obama said to Wisconsin Democrats. "'I have a dream' -- just words. 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal' -- just words. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself' - just words. Just speeches." Watch Patrick HERE and Obama HERE. Since last year, observers have been noting that rhetorical similarities between the two candidates with vaguely similar biographies and campaign pitches -- who also share political guru David Axelrod. "It's a handoff," Axelrod explains in an email. "They're friends and allies. They share a view of politics and often riff off of each other." Some, including the New York Observer noted that Obama's recent adoption of the "Yes, we can," slogan echoed Patrick's use of it. "Yes we can reuse slogans," quipped Ben Smith at Politico, noting that a Patrick TV ad from 2006 uses the slogan -- as does an Obama state senate ad from 2004. And Axelrod says"Yes we can" was Obama's campaign slogan in 2004. (So Obama echoed Patrick who echoed Obama.) Of course, all of it is an English pinch of the slogan Si Se Puede from the United Farm Workers from 1972! Common language and themes are not unheard of in politics, though it can also be controversial. A Boston Globe story from almost a year ago looks at the sharing that has gone on between Obama and Patrick, who are friends. What do you think? - jpt UPDATE: The Obama campaign has issued a statement from Gov. Patrick: “Sen. Obama and I are long-time friends and allies. We often share ideas about politics, policy and language. The argument in question, on the value of words in the public square, is one about which he and I have spoken frequently before. Given the recent attacks from Sen. Clinton, I applaud him responding in just the way he did.” It does seem to me that this issue may also be one between Obama and his supporters, not just Obama and Patrick. Thousands, if not millions, of Americans are inspired by Obama's words. They do not think they are "just words." But many of them also likely think they are at least somewhat original.
seriously, as if he cheated on his Bar exam. he responded to the same criticism with the same phrase.
To have stolen something, you must take it without permission - that did not happen. As for "stealing words", in a recent debate, McCain stole Huckabee's line about following Al Queda to the gates of hell. Hillary recently stole Rudy Guiliani's campaign slogan "Tested. Ready. Now." and used "Tested. Ready. Let's Make It Happen." Why, I have no idea, given how well it worked for Rudy. I would suspect both of those cases were done without permission - Obama's was not. Odd that you're only considered about that one.
From TJ's link this is a statement from Patrick: "Sen. Obama and I are long-time friends and allies. We often share ideas about politics, policy and language. The argument in question, on the value of words in the public square, is one about which he and I have spoken frequently before. Given the recent attacks from Sen. Clinton, I applaud him responding in just the way he did.”
MLK Jr. did this all the time in his speaches and sermons. My uncle wrote an entire book on it. Doesn't make someone a theif.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/18/u...90&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all “Don’t tell me words don’t matter,” Mr. Obama said, to applause. “ ‘I have a dream’ — just words? ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal’ — just words? ‘We have nothing to fear but fear itself’ — just words? Just speeches?” Mr. Patrick employed similar language during his 2006 governor’s race when his Republican rival, Kerry Healey, criticized him as offering lofty rhetoric over specifics. Mr. Patrick has endorsed Mr. Obama, and the two men are close friends. “ ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal’ — just words? Just words?” Mr. Patrick said one month before his election. “ ‘We have nothing to fear but fear itself’ — just words? ‘Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.’ Just words? ‘I have a dream’ — just words?” In a telephone interview on Sunday, Mr. Patrick said that he and Mr. Obama first talked about the attacks from their respective rivals last summer, when Mrs. Clinton was raising questions about Mr. Obama’s experience, and that they discussed them again last week. Both men had anticipated that Mr. Obama’s rhetorical strength would provide a point of criticism. Mr. Patrick said he told Mr. Obama that he should respond to the criticism, and he shared language from his campaign with Mr. Obama’s speechwriters. Mr. Patrick said he did not believe Mr. Obama should give him credit. “Who knows who I am? The point is more important than whose argument it is,” said Mr. Patrick, who telephoned The New York Times at the request of the Obama campaign. “It’s a transcendent argument.” David Axelrod, the chief strategist for Mr. Obama who also advised Mr. Patrick, said Sunday that Mr. Obama adapted the words from Mr. Patrick. Mr. Axelrod said that he did not write the words for either candidate. “They often riff off one another. They share a world view,” Mr. Axelrod said. “Both of them are effective speakers whose words tend to get requoted and arguments tend to be embraced widely.”
In other words, Barak Obama = Deval Patrick 2.0 They are all talkers and Obama even had to borrow languages from Patrick. Kind pathetic.
So if you use the same words, you're a copy of the person? Obama also quoted FDR, JFK, and MLK. Is he a copy of them too? These are some bizarre arguments people try to make.
I don't master English language well enough to quote FDR, JFK and MLK. But even I know the difference between quoting someone in the speech and borrowing 70% words from other's speech, throwing out there and treating them like his own.
If the Clinton campaign brought this up then they are truly getting desperate. Obama was making a similar point in a very similar and very effective way. There is nothing wrong with that at all. In fact it’s what he should be doing, because it helps drive home the point. The attempt at spinning this as plagiarism makes the Clinton campaign look very bad indeed. It’s very funny to see the neocons try to jump on this too. How often to they parrot each other’s empty rhetoric? If you took away the “arguments” that they parrot from other neocons, basso and TJ’s verbiage on this board would be greatly reduced to say the least.
70%? It was something like a 20 or 30 minute long speech. The part that he used was this: “Don’t tell me words don’t matter,” Mr. Obama said, to applause. “ ‘I have a dream’ — just words? ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal’ — just words? ‘We have nothing to fear but fear itself’ — just words? Just speeches?” And the vast majority of that was from FDR, JFK, and MLK. The total that he took from Patrick was: "Just words?" "Just words?" "Just words? Just speeches?" 8 words (four of them being the word "just" and three being the word "words") - in a 20 minute speech. How do you get to 70% from there?
Actually, the "Just speeches" wasn't part of Patrick's response. So we're looking at saying the phrase "just words" three times.
Same message, same words, same vocal emphasis, ZERO attribution to the original author/speaker -- it's a total rip off! The irony is that the speech is based on 'words'. Yeah, Deval Patrick's words! They aren't even his OWN words. This is completely and totally fraudulent. Did he think he'd get away with it? Wow.
