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Obama and Ethanol Interests

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by A_3PO, Jun 23, 2008.

  1. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    I think this deserves a thread. Obama is dead wrong and McCain owns him on this issue. The media needs to press Obama about ethanol and McCain should pop him during their debates. It looks to me that Obama snuggled up to ethanol advocates to help his successful Iowa campaign and Illinois farmers. I think ethanol is a complete and utter-shameful boondoggle but I'm open minded about it if someone can present facts why I'm wrong.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/23/u...kip&adxnnlx=1214244318-GDopH2CyA42gKjy8WlJCxg

    une 23, 2008
    Obama Camp Closely Linked With Ethanol
    By LARRY ROHTER

    When VeraSun Energy inaugurated a new ethanol processing plant last summer in Charles City, Iowa, some of that industry’s most prominent boosters showed up. Leaders of the National Corn Growers Association and the Renewable Fuels Association, for instance, came to help cut the ribbon — and so did Senator Barack Obama.

    Then running far behind Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton in name recognition and in the polls, Mr. Obama was in the midst of a campaign swing through the state where he would eventually register his first caucus victory. And as befits a senator from Illinois, the country’s second largest corn-producing state, he delivered a ringing endorsement of ethanol as an alternative fuel.

    Mr. Obama is running as a reformer who is seeking to reduce the influence of special interests. But like any other politician, he has powerful constituencies that help shape his views. And when it comes to domestic ethanol, almost all of which is made from corn, he also has advisers and prominent supporters with close ties to the industry at a time when energy policy is a point of sharp contrast between the parties and their presidential candidates.

    In the heart of the Corn Belt that August day, Mr. Obama argued that embracing ethanol “ultimately helps our national security, because right now we’re sending billions of dollars to some of the most hostile nations on earth.” America’s oil dependence, he added, “makes it more difficult for us to shape a foreign policy that is intelligent and is creating security for the long term.”

    Nowadays, when Mr. Obama travels in farm country, he is sometimes accompanied by his friend Tom Daschle, the former Senate majority leader from South Dakota. Mr. Daschle now serves on the boards of three ethanol companies and works at a Washington law firm where, according to his online job description, “he spends a substantial amount of time providing strategic and policy advice to clients in renewable energy.”

    Mr. Obama’s lead advisor on energy and environmental issues, Jason Grumet, came to the campaign from the National Commission on Energy Policy, a bipartisan initiative associated with Mr. Daschle and Bob Dole, the Kansas Republican who is also a former Senate majority leader and a big ethanol backer who had close ties to the agribusiness giant Archer Daniels Midland.

    Not long after arriving in the Senate, Mr. Obama himself briefly provoked a controversy by flying at subsidized rates on corporate airplanes, including twice on jets owned by Archer Daniels Midland, which is the nation’s largest ethanol producer and is based in his home state.

    Jason Furman, the Obama campaign’s economic policy director, said Mr. Obama’s stance on ethanol was based on its merits. “That is what has always motivated him on this issue, and will continue to determine his policy going forward,” Mr. Furman said.

    Asked if Mr. Obama brought any predisposition or bias to the ethanol debate because he represents a corn-growing state that stands to benefit from a boom, Mr. Furman said, “He wants to represent the United States of America, and his policies are based on what’s best for the country.”

    Mr. Daschle, a national co-chairman of the Obama campaign, said in a telephone interview on Friday that his role advising the Obama campaign on energy matters was limited. He said he was not a lobbyist for ethanol companies, but did speak publicly about renewable energy options and worked “with a number of associations and groups to orchestrate and coordinate their activities,” including the Governors’ Ethanol Coalition.

    Of Mr. Obama, Mr. Daschle said, “He has a terrific policy staff and relies primarily on those key people to advise him on key issues, whether energy or climate change or other things.”

    Ethanol is one area in which Mr. Obama strongly disagrees with his Republican opponent, Senator John McCain of Arizona. While both presidential candidates emphasize the need for the United States to achieve “energy security” while also slowing down the carbon emissions that are believed to contribute to global warming, they offer sharply different visions of the role that ethanol, which can be made from a variety of organic materials, should play in those efforts.

    Mr. McCain advocates eliminating the multibillion-dollar annual government subsidies that domestic ethanol has long enjoyed. As a free trade advocate, he also opposes the 54-cent-a-gallon tariff that the United States slaps on imports of ethanol made from sugar cane, which packs more of an energy punch than corn-based ethanol and is cheaper to produce.

    “We made a series of mistakes by not adopting a sustainable energy policy, one of which is the subsidies for corn ethanol, which I warned in Iowa were going to destroy the market” and contribute to inflation, Mr. McCain said this month in an interview with a Brazilian newspaper, O Estado de São Paulo. “Besides, it is wrong,” he added, to tax Brazilian-made sugar cane ethanol, “which is much more efficient than corn ethanol.”

    Mr. Obama, in contrast, favors the subsidies, some of which end up in the hands of the same oil companies he says should be subjected to a windfall profits tax. In the name of helping the United States build “energy independence,” he also supports the tariff, which some economists say may well be illegal under the World Trade Organization’s rules but which his advisers say is not.

    Many economists, consumer advocates, environmental experts and tax groups have been critical of corn ethanol programs as a boondoggle that benefits agribusiness conglomerates more than small farmers. Those complaints have intensified recently as corn prices have risen sharply in tandem with oil prices and corn normally used for food stock has been diverted to ethanol production.

    “If you want to take some of the pressure off this market, the obvious thing to do is lower that tariff and let some Brazilian ethanol come in,” said C. Ford Runge, an economist specializing in commodities and trade policy at the Center for International Food and Agricultural Policy at the University of Minnesota. “But one of the fundamental reasons biofuels policy is so out of whack with markets and reality is that interest group politics have been so dominant in the construction of the subsidies that support it.”

    Corn ethanol generates less than two units of energy for every unit of energy used to produce it, while the energy ratio for sugar cane is more than 8 to 1. With lower production costs and cheaper land prices in the tropical countries where it is grown, sugar cane is a more efficient source.

    Mr. Furman said the campaign continued to examine the issue. “We want to evaluate all our energy subsidies to make sure that taxpayers are getting their money’s worth,” he said.

    He added that Mr. Obama favored “a range of initiatives” that were aimed at “diversification across countries and sources of energy,” including cellulosic ethanol, and which, unlike Mr. McCain’s proposals, were specifically meant to “reduce overall demand through conservation, new technology and improved efficiency.”

    On the campaign trail, Mr. Obama has not explained his opposition to imported sugar cane ethanol. But in remarks last year, made as President Bush was about to sign an ethanol cooperation agreement with his Brazilian counterpart, Mr. Obama argued that “our country’s drive toward energy independence” could suffer if Mr. Bush relaxed restrictions, as Mr. McCain now proposes.

    “It does not serve our national and economic security to replace imported oil with Brazilian ethanol,” he argued.

    Mr. Obama does talk regularly about developing switchgrass, which flourishes in the Midwest and Great Plains, as a source for ethanol. While the energy ratio for switchgrass and other types of cellulosic ethanol is much greater than corn, economists say that time-consuming investments in infrastructure would be required to make it viable, and with corn nearing $8 a bushel, farmers have little incentive to shift.

    Ethanol industry executives and advocates have not made large donations to either candidate for president, an examination of campaign contribution records shows. But they have noted the difference between Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain.

    Brian Jennings, a vice president of the American Coalition for Ethanol, said he hoped that Mr. McCain, as a presidential candidate, “would take a broader view of energy security and recognize the important role that ethanol plays.”

    The candidates’ views were tested recently in the Farm Bill approved by Congress that extended the subsidies for corn ethanol, though reducing them slightly, and the tariffs on imported sugar cane ethanol. Because Mr. McCain and Mr. Obama were campaigning, neither voted. But Mr. McCain said that as president he would veto the bill, while Mr. Obama praised it.
     
  2. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    Only partially related, but Ted Poe gave a great speach last week about the relation between the corn ethanol mandate and the Gulf Dead Zone:

    Video

    Text:

     
  3. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    but...but....but....obama is DIFFERENT!! he is for hope! he isn't for soaring food prices and worldwide food shortages! lol @ people thinking obama is any different. he is a joke. hey obama why don't you come down hard on the food "speculators" too?
     
  4. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    dude, this is so ****ing lame by now.
     
  5. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    its so funny, you guys who claim to be neutral use that criticism on all topics, how does this apply to him being a different politician. its not a one size fits all criticism.
     
  6. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    do i need to post the studies that link us ethanol subsidies to worldwide food shortages and food price increases? or have you read them already?
     
  7. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    everytime obama takes a side you don't agree with you don't need to start with the he's not the messiah crap. its tired

    read the previous post, the criticism doesn't even apply, nobody said he was perfect or that you would agree with everything.
     
  8. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    I was planning to post this when I got on my laptop.

    The Corn ethanol factor will ruin our nation's national interest. Hopefully Obama reverses course though he looks deep in it.
     
  9. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    no I believe he is the messiah and he's going to change the chemical structure of corn to be a more efficient source of ethanol. you'll see
     
  10. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    i don't agree with the us government on this. obama, the man for change, is supporting the big ag subsidies that are responsible for soaring food prices and food shortages. if he and his supporters are going to continue with this bs line that he is for change then he deserves to be attacked for a position that is destructive and is only maintained because the powerful ag companies have a huge amount of influence in government.

    i don't really think you understand how destructive this policy has been. it has been horrible and obama will only support it. the reasons for his support are pretty obvious. it is pretty sad.
     
  11. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Hey stop stealing my thunder!

    That's for you pgabriel. ;)

    I agree with McCain on this issue and corn ethanol is a bad deal energy and economically wise. Living here in the Midwest you don't want to mess with Big Corn or else you're likely to find yourself in corn crib with a Des Moines necktie. ;)

    Farm interests still hold a big sway here and any politician representing a Midwest state will have a hard time seeing elected office if they take a stand against things like ethanol, farm subsidies and trade protections.

    [rquoter]Mr. Obama does talk regularly about developing switchgrass, which flourishes in the Midwest and Great Plains, as a source for ethanol. While the energy ratio for switchgrass and other types of cellulosic ethanol is much greater than corn, economists say that time-consuming investments in infrastructure would be required to make it viable, and with corn nearing $8 a bushel, farmers have little incentive to shift.[/rquoter]

    While corn ethanol is loser I still have hope for cellulosic ethanol and my hope is that new breakthroughs will happen to make it more cost effective. As for getting farmers to shift if farm subsidies are phased out many smaller farmers might be tempted to shift to growing prairie grass since it requires very little resources to grow.
     
  12. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    just drop the tariff and import the brazilian ethanol. that would be huge.
     
  13. yaoluv

    yaoluv Member

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    This article tries to insinuate that there is something under the table going on.

    Are these special interests giving him money or help?

    Or does obama, like a lot of environmentalists, genuinely believe that ethanol is a good thing?
     
  14. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    exactly, we don't know what his motive is, for right now we just have to assume rightly or wrongly he believes in ethanol.
     
  15. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    You may be misconstruing some of the criticism. Obama will win handily unless his energy policy enervates him. This is the issue that could cause the electorate to drop him like a hot rock.

    People may not like the war in Iraq, but they will vote for anybody promising cheaper, plentiful gasoline (oil) for their SUVs over the "pay more until it hurts so we will learn to conserve" philosophy. It's a fact of life.
     
  16. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    there is nothing to believe in. ADM was courting him and he is from a corn growing state. it's as simple as that. i haven't seen any official polls on corn ethanol but i am pretty sure the only ones that support it are the ones who will benefit from it. this policy has hurt the nation and the world. hopefully, obama will change his mind on this.
     
  17. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    btw, its so freakin easy to do a little research before the insults and accusations


    As presidential hopefuls on all sides field pressure to be more specific, Sen. Obama (D-Ill.) added some substance to his support for alternative energy.

    At a Saturday stop in Terre Haute, Indiana, the guru of change responded to a question about corn-based ethanol by describing it as a "transitional" technology and pointed out it is not the panacea of the country's foreign oil dependence.


    Associated Press
    Raise your hand if you understand the limits of ethanol. Barack does."Corn-based ethanol is not optimal. I've been a big supporter of corn-based ethanol. I come from a corn state -- Illinois -- and it's a good transitional technology, but the truth is, it is not as efficient as what the Brazilians are doing with sugar cane."
    He ended by explaining that he intends to charge polluters for their negative impact on global warming then reinvest those funds on renewable energies, among which he cited wind, solar and clean coal.

    Given the recent studies that point out ethanol's drawbacks, seems like a well-chosen specific.


    edit: he said this in the fifth highest corn growing state while also opposing the gas tax holiday.
     
    #17 pgabriel, Jun 23, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2008
  18. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    read the above post oh neutral one
     
  19. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    I imagine his Eucharist to be in the form of a small internet donation and a sip of his more efficient source of ethanol.
     
  20. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    it is not a good transitional technology. do you consider significantly higher food prices and food shortages good? you act like i am the one not being neutral but you fail to even recognize the destructive nature of corn ethanol.
     

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