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[NYTimes] The Dirty Old Men of Pakistan

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Honey Bear, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. okierock

    okierock Contributing Member

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    Heck, maybe we start with just defending them?
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

    Supporting Member

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai

    She's a real hero to me. A Muslim I admire. Incredibly brave. A government that cannot protect girls like her is a failed state, sadly. And a country where the majority or something close to it is against a person like that...is in dire straits. I wish I knew how one could defend or protect people like her within the country from the outside. Seems very hard to do.

    And we all agree that education could be the solution, but that is precisely what the Islamists are trying to prevent.
     
  3. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    It's a big step for Pakistan to even try to make this law happen. I never thought I'd see the day for this backwards country. They have a large battle in front of them to secure women's rights and move away from a tyrannical patriarchal culture.

    Too bad people choose to only focus on the negative.
     
  4. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    Not if you think about it without the anti-Islam bias.

    Among other things, yes. Passing laws prohibiting domestic violence is without question evidence of a society evolving.

    Yes, just like men went batsh!t crazy when women protested for the right to vote in the United States, England, and a great many other places. Men have claimed all kinds of inane bullsh!t in order to deny rights to women throughout history. Other countries are now going through it, which is a good thing.

    Here's a woman being arrested because she thought she deserved the right to vote in the UK.

    [​IMG]

    Just like my conclusion is that a Christian society was evolving for the better when we extended civil rights to African Americans despite groups claiming to be Christian who went around bombing churches and lynching black people. I don't blame the Christian religion for the misdeeds of the KKK any more than I blame Islam for the actions of the backwards nutjobs who claim it as their reason to persecute people.
     
  5. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    The problem with Christianity is that it is too open to interpretation (too many windows to "justify" horrific things) and the uneducated/poor (and increasingly even the more educated, it seems) can use those windows to twist its meaning.

    The thing about Christianity is that many of its followers evolved so that now they see the horrific things done in its name as horrific rather than justified. Islam appears to be going through the same kind of evolution, which is a good thing.
     
  6. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    I completely agree, why are Muslims going to all the western nations if they do not want to assimilate?
     
  7. AroundTheWorld

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    You have your own ideological bias which includes a completely blind spot when it comes to Islamism, and which appears to affect your reading ability.

    Right to vote and right not to be beaten up are not quite the same thing, although you are trying to make it seem that way. I also need to point out that you had to try very hard to find a black and white photo, which shows that we are talking about the past there, not about the present. I'm surprised you didn't go back as far as the crusades, which is the usual leftist Pavlov reflex. But...but...crusades.

    The KKK lynched black people because the KKK members were racists, not for religious reasons, whereas Islam is specifically cited as the prime reason for opposition to this law. I'll repost it in bold and underlined so that you will perhaps not miss it this time.

    A coalition of more than 30 religious and political parties has declared the law un-Islamic, an attempt to secularize Pakistan and a clear and present threat to our most sacred institution: the family.
     
  8. AroundTheWorld

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    So you take the passing of one law that prohibits beating up your wife at home as "Islam appearing to be going through the same kind of evolution" - while most of the opposition to the law actually comes from...Islamic parties.

    Talk about projecting whatever your ideological leanings would like the message to be onto a situation. :rolleyes:

    Do you have any more evidence that "Islam appears to be going through the same kind of evolution"? The Pew polls and the increase in Islamist terror appear to indicate the exact opposite, as well as the fact that full veils and much stricter, Wahhabist interpretation of Sharia law have been on the rise across the Muslim world in past decades.

    None of that fits your imaginary narrative.
     
  9. Honey Bear

    Honey Bear Contributing Member

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    It took a muslim journalist who escaped the Iron Curtain to point out the barrier to Islamic societies progressing. Measures like this (setting up a woman's hotline for those abused, creating shelters, preventing muslim males from entering those shelters) have been proposed before by women's groups - only to be shot down through bureaucratic malarky, heavily steeped in religious reasoning.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35811180

     
  10. Honey Bear

    Honey Bear Contributing Member

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    As an Indian, you grew up in a more secular environment and were ultimately held accountable for your actions.

    That's very different to the lack of secularism and oppressive measures taken in muslim societies. There is 0 accountability when it comes to acts committed in the name of Allah - and why moderates are responsible for narratives leading to global violence and jihad. They'll just point the fingers to others, say there is a media bias against them and claim their interpretation of Islam is different.

    You can play the Christian, Jew, Muslim game to try to mask your ignorance, but as movies like Spotlight show, Christian societies aggressively went after and persecuted religious scholars committing perverted acts under the power of God's will. They didn't let it slide and look at the other way. They don't let their princes/rulers rape and kill whoever they want without question.

    If you can't acknowledge how far behind Islamic societies - NOT JUST THE RADICALS - are behind in this regard, then you are a part of the problem.
     
  11. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Such a weak comeback. Just look at what's happening in the world today - pull your head out of your ass.
     
  12. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    just if someone suffer from Alzheimer ,more than 2 decades ago, Pakistan elected
    Benazir Bhutto*

    [​IMG]

    * (hint: she is a women, on the Right,wearing green dress )
     
  13. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    You're the one getting a good whiff of his own feces, not me. Stop projecting so much, the turds from Bullsh!t Mountain must be getting to you.
     
    #33 GladiatoRowdy, Apr 5, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2016
  14. dmoneybangbang

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    It sucks when you can't just single out one religion.
     
  15. dmoneybangbang

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    Like the Catholics and pedophilia? Lol. The world is a big place when you actually look, otherwise it's very small and narrow.
     
  16. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Christianity reformed because more people started having access to their holy scripture in hteir native language.

    Islam doesn't currently have that problem. A large share of ISIS fighters are literate native Arabic speakers who have read the Quran for themselves plenty of times.
     
  17. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    I certainly have my own ideological leanings, but they aren't what you seem to think they are. My reading ability is strong, it seems curious to me that you don't see movement towards a more inclusive society in a predominantly Muslim country as positive progress.

    You're right, domestic violence in the United States was out of control before the VAWA was passed in 1994. That's right, barely over two decades ago.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Against_Women_Act

    Not trying to "make it seem" any particular way. I'm just looking at the facts regarding the evolution of societies, which takes place at a different pace in different societies.

    Didn't have to try hard at all, it was right there in wiki and as it was a clear example of the point I was making (which you appear to have missed), it was an appropriate image.

    That would certainly be one example of horrific things done by Christians in the name of the Christian religion, but I chose more contemporary examples. Of course, you just ignored them, but that's par for the course with you.

    The KKK prominently used Christian imagery, words from the Bible, and claims of Christian superiority to justify their horrific acts. They claimed not just the superiority of the white race, but superiority of their religion over that of others. This makes them very analogous to nutjob Islamists who claim their religion justifies their actions.

    http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint/touchstone/KKK-Fisher.htm


    Yes, nutjobs will seize on any reason for justification of their nutty beliefs, whether or not it has any basis in the religion. The KKK talked about the threat that black people posed to "the family" repeatedly and at length. They took this to such an extreme that there were laws against interracial marriage on the books in the United States until SCOTUS overturned them in 1967, less than 50 years ago.

    You're acting like Islamic societies are hundreds of years behind us. They're not.
     
    #37 GladiatoRowdy, Apr 5, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2016
  18. AroundTheWorld

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    Nope, it's you.

    Hilarious that you of all people would talk about projecting when that is exactly what you have been doing here.
     
  19. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Only one religion is dominating current headlines with atrocities. It's not even close.
     
  20. Honey Bear

    Honey Bear Contributing Member

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    Reading comprehension.

    How did the Catholic communities act out against those priests? What was the result of spotlight?

    How are Islamic communities obliging perversity under the name of God?

    Which narrative is leading to mass atrocities on a daily basis across the world?1

    That's the difference between progressive communities and those willfully living in the dark ages.
     

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