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[NYTimes]Is History Siding With Obama’s Economic Plan?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Invisible Fan, Aug 31, 2008.

  1. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/business/31view.html?em

    CLEARLY, there are major differences between the economic policies of Senators Barack Obama and John McCain. Mr. McCain wants more tax cuts for the rich; Mr. Obama wants tax cuts for the poor and middle class. The two men also disagree on health care, energy and many other topics.


    [​IMG]

    Such differences are hardly surprising. Democrats and Republicans have followed different approaches to the economy for as long as there have been Democrats and Republicans. Longer, actually. Remember Hamilton versus Jefferson?

    Many Americans know that there are characteristic policy differences between the two parties. But few are aware of two important facts about the post-World War II era, both of which are brilliantly delineated in a new book, “Unequal Democracy,” by Larry M. Bartels, a professor of political science at Princeton. Understanding them might help voters see what could be at stake, economically speaking, in November.

    I call the first fact the Great Partisan Growth Divide. Simply put, the United States economy has grown faster, on average, under Democratic presidents than under Republicans.

    The stark contrast between the whiz-bang Clinton years and the dreary Bush years is familiar because it is so recent. But while it is extreme, it is not atypical. Data for the whole period from 1948 to 2007, during which Republicans occupied the White House for 34 years and Democrats for 26, show average annual growth of real gross national product of 1.64 percent per capita under Republican presidents versus 2.78 percent under Democrats.

    That 1.14-point difference, if maintained for eight years, would yield 9.33 percent more income per person, which is a lot more than almost anyone can expect from a tax cut.

    Such a large historical gap in economic performance between the two parties is rather surprising, because presidents have limited leverage over the nation’s economy. Most economists will tell you that Federal Reserve policy and oil prices, to name just two influences, are far more powerful than fiscal policy. Furthermore, as those mutual fund prospectuses constantly warn us, past results are no guarantee of future performance. But statistical regularities, like facts, are stubborn things. You bet against them at your peril.

    The second big historical fact, which might be called the Great Partisan Inequality Divide, is the focus of Professor Bartels’s work.

    It is well known that income inequality in the United States has been on the rise for about 30 years now — an unsettling development that has finally touched the public consciousness. But Professor Bartels unearths a stunning statistical regularity: Over the entire 60-year period, income inequality trended substantially upward under Republican presidents but slightly downward under Democrats, thus accounting for the widening income gaps over all. And the bad news for America’s poor is that Republicans have won five of the seven elections going back to 1980.

    The Great Partisan Inequality Divide is not limited to the poor. To get a more granular look, Professor Bartels studied the postwar history of income gains at five different places in the income distribution.

    The 20th percentile is the income level at which 20 percent of all families have less income and 80 percent have more. It is thus a plausible dividing line between the poor and the nonpoor. Similarly, the 40th percentile is the income level at which 40 percent of the families are poorer and 60 percent are richer. And similarly for the 60th, 80th, and 95th percentiles. The 95th percentile is the best dividing line between the rich and the nonrich that the data permitted Professor Bartels to study. (That dividing line, by the way, is well below the $5 million threshold John McCain has jokingly used for defining the rich. It’s closer to $180,000.)

    The accompanying table, which is adapted from the book, tells a remarkably consistent story. It shows that when Democrats were in the White House, lower-income families experienced slightly faster income growth than higher-income families — which means that incomes were equalizing. In stark contrast, it also shows much faster income growth for the better-off when Republicans were in the White House — thus widening the gap in income.

    The table also shows that families at the 95th percentile fared almost as well under Republican presidents as under Democrats (1.90 percent growth per year, versus 2.12 percent), giving them little stake, economically, in election outcomes. But the stakes were enormous for the less well-to-do. Families at the 20th percentile fared much worse under Republicans than under Democrats (0.43 percent versus 2.64 percent). Eight years of growth at an annual rate of 0.43 percent increases a family’s income by just 3.5 percent, while eight years of growth at 2.64 percent raises it by 23.2 percent.

    The sources of such large differences make for a slightly complicated story. In the early part of the period — say, the pre-Reagan years — the Great Partisan Growth Divide accounted for most of the Great Partisan Inequality divide, because the poor do relatively better in a high-growth economy.

    Beginning with the Reagan presidency, however, growth differences are smaller and tax and transfer policies have played a larger role. We know, for example, that Republicans have typically favored large tax cuts for upper-income groups while Democrats have opposed them. In addition, Democrats have been more willing to raise the minimum wage, and Republicans have been more hostile toward unions.

    The two Great Partisan Divides combine to suggest that, if history is a guide, an Obama victory in November would lead to faster economic growth with less inequality, while a McCain victory would lead to slower economic growth with more inequality. Which part of the Obama menu don’t you like?

    Alan S. Blinder is a professor of economics and public affairs at Princeton and former vice chairman of the Federal Reserve. He has advised many Democratic politicians.
     
  2. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    First of all, it's hard to believe a word out of Obama's mouth considering he has gone back on SO MANY of his promises since the primaries. At his core, Obama is a very partisan liberal. Make no mistake about it -- he prefers a larger government and higher taxes.

    What he has publicly admitted to is wanting to raise the capital gains tax and the tax on dividends. That ALONE impacts half of America. That is scary. He also wants to tinker with payroll taxes, which is scary.

    He will lie to your face and tell you that his taxes only impact the rich. The facts are much different, however. People need to man up and face facts on this issue. His capital gains tax and dividend tax proposals would DEVASTATE the stock market. The impact would cripple hard working Americans' 401k plans and nest eggs. They would be DEVASTATED.
     
  3. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    ^

    Take the bet.

    Cobarde.
     
  4. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    My parents are so prototypical. My mom is undecided and my dad is leaning toward McCain.

    Dad thinks Obama will be like Carter. Luckily, my dad never votes.
     
  5. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    This story doesn't say much to me. The New York Times would always agree with the furtherest left position regardless of accuracy or fairness. This once great newspaper is now no more credible than the Huffington Post.
     
  6. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Read the last two lines.

    It's an opinion piece by former Fed member Alan Blinder. Specifically he is discussing empirical research by another economist.

    You kind of have a tendency to launch shallow attacks on things you don't bother to understand, using the old chestnut of make-believe left-leaning media coverage.

    THey're pretty lame - you remind me of the CHinese Nationalist approach to Western media criticism.
     
  7. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    Save for your distrust of Obama, your response implicitly agrees that the Democrat economic plan is superior.

    TELLING
     
  8. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    I am more critical than most because I was a member of major media for the first 20 years of my career. I went to school with a several former and current Times staffers. We communicate with moderate frequency so my criticism is not as shallow as you would believe. Also, I always make sure to know that my comments are my opinion only -- just the same as you consider me as somewhat less than intelligent.
     
  9. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Having a pretend journalism background makes it all the more embarrassing that you were unable to recognize that it was an Opinion piece by Alan Blinder.

    thumbs, you are just smearing it all around now.

    Stop posting & clean yourself off.
     
  10. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    I knew a rational explanation to an irrational person was fruitless. My bad.
     
  11. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    And thus ends your embarrassing series of posts in this thread I hope.

    Back to the topic:

    Not a single person here has challenged Bartel's empirical data here, or in cases like above, even bothered to read and figure out who he is and what data is being referred.
     
  12. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    The New York Times chooses experts with opinions they like. Experts with opposing views never see the light of day in their newsprint.
     
  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Thanks addressing the substance but looks like you're wrong again, liar.

     
  14. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    Thumbs, I will try to make this easier for you to attempt a substantive rebuttal of the argument put forward by the Princeton fancy-pants economist. He is not the New York Times, so it may be worth dropping that particularly hackneyed attack. How about the substance?

    So, care to take on any or all of the main points, 1, 2, and 3?

    And Sam, "data are." If you're going to be snotty funny, got to get that right.
     
  15. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    Sam, since you probably already are seeing a psychiatrist, I recommend doubling your sessions.
     
  16. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    Wow... so I should summarize it even more? Does it need to be a 30-second sound bite? :(
     
  17. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Can you get Shepard Smith to deliver it in a 30 second sound bite?

    His voice is so dreamy.
     
  18. desihooper

    desihooper Member
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    James Carville, a noted Hilary backer, hit on this point before the DNC convention.

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/20/carville.obama/index.html?iref=newssearch

    Obama can connect with voters on the economy by using history as a guideline. He should start by reading "Unequal Democracy," by Princeton academic Larry Bartels. The non-partisan and non-political Bartels points out devastatingly after an exhaustive study of Democratic and Republican presidents that the Democrats built a better economy and a more just society.

    The campaign needs to say that, since 1900, Democratic presidents have not only "won" but dominated on every economic front: GDP growth, employment, deficit and income equality. Need more? How about a better performing stock market and a more fiscally-responsible spending.

    There's no need to listen to McCain's marginal rates, death tax, deregulation, trickle-down, supply-side shenanigans because historically Democratic presidencies have produced better economies. And with the economy still in the forefront, it seems like a no-brainer for Obama to talk about the historical supremacy of economies under Democratic presidents.
     

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