As a stout fan and student of the Rockets since about 78, I can say this is the most consistent team at being inconsistent. Its not really about winning the title this yr or even next yr, but just showing improvement as a team. Tonights game not withstanding, the Rockets have been showing this improvement, but does anyone expect this team to championship quality? How does this team really compare to the other western power? Do we need to trade someone to get this chemistry or just let the grow together? So i ask the question, do the Rockets make a move to acquire a Brand or Rahim type forward at the expense of Eddie Griffin, or do we ride it out, wait for Ming tobecome the player we know he will be and keep the team together without tradin Griffin. This is a real dilemma that the rockets must address in the next couple of weeks leading up to the deadline. First off, it must be evaluted how far the Rockets are off from sewrious contention. How many yrs would it take for the rockets to be serious contenders with the cast and improvement curve the have now? 2-4 yrs or less? Looking back at recent history, a very good player can make you almost a instant contender in the nba. The spurs did it wth Duncan, the Kings did it with Webber.That being said, how much improved would we be with a Elton Brand or SAR playing the 4 spot. If we added a player of that caliber and subtracted Eddie Griffn and someone else would we then be real serios players in the playoffs? Would adding these players interrupt or disturb the chemistry of this present team? Personally, I have no problem with our pf situation with Griffin and Taylor for the most part. All things being equal, Taylor is a good player as well as Eddie, But having the chance to acquire a player such as SAR or Brand could be the deal maker that could get the rockets not only out of the first rd, but also being real serious players in the west. Many people will talk and state about we don't need to take shots away from Ming or Francis and i agree to a certain degreee, but to get a chance to acquire a player of their caliber doen't come around to often. Once again I want to let everyone know I'm not proposing the breakup of this team, just merely asking what do we as fans think the rockets should do at the presnt time.
Adding an Elton Brand/SAR wouldn't improve us much and even would hurt us long-term. Just give this current team time and let them grow. Be patient. Remember that they just play 40 odd games together.
Duncan didn't help give the Spurs a championship til I believe his second or third year. Webber still hasn't gotten a championship for the Kings, and when the Kings did acquire him, everyone in the NBA was down on him, calling him a bust. Back then the Kings were a #8 Seeded team who were eliminated by the Jazz for two years straight, til they got rid of Jason Williams, and acquired Mike Bibby. And even now with Mike Bibby, granted he's only been a King for just now over a year, they've yet to win a championship. The Kings weren't always good. The Lakers weren't always good, even when they did acquire Shaq from Orlando. It takes a few years to have it all come together. We got some growing pains to endure. We don't play consistent always during the game. We beat ourselves for atleast 5 minutes of every game and let our opposing team make a nice run to either comeback from a deficit or extend their lead to double digits. We got a lot of things we need to improve upon. Our starting five still has chemistry issues, we're a bad road team, we don't have a very deep bench in certain positions. Our star players haven't reached their potential yet. Ming needs to bulk up some more, and get rid of the Euro style mentality and jam the ball hard when he's near the basket. The thing that frustrates me most when watching Ming are those lay ins he misses where if he just stuffed the ball hard, he'd probably generate a foul, and get a 2 point jam in the process. Shaq's a hell of a finisher. More often then not, he'll get hacked, but still get the 2 points and get a free throw. Hakeem was a great finisher. All the great Centers were terrific finishers, and thats something Ming will need to improve upon. In saying all that, there are still plenty of other issues to address that we could and need to improve upon. But, when I see this team, I think of us similar to the Sacramento Kings when they weren't considered an elite a few years back. They didn't always have a deep bench as they do now. Peja wasn't as muscular as he was now. He wasn't always the pure shooter that he is now. He had a lot of things he needed to work on before he became what he is today. Webber just came off from nagging injuries before he was a King. He had passing issues, and consistency issues. I always remember Walton insulting him back then, even last year in the Western Conference Finals, Walton still bashed Webber, saying he could be so much better. The plain fact of the matter is, the Kings had a lot of issues and missing pieces to the puzzle before even being considered a great team. Had they not acquired Bibby, you can bet, they'd still be a #8 seeded team. Had they not acquired Bobby Jackson, or Turkoglu, you can bet, Bibby and Peja would be playing longer minutes in the game to the point of exhaustion by the end of the season. The Rockets are still in the process of doing all that. They still need to develop that team chemistry. They still need to get that deep bench. The players individually have to realize their roles still as far as I can tell. Nachbar still needs to bulk up and work on a lot of his issues similar to the same way Peja had to go through the same process. Francis still hasn't even reached his prime. Ming hasn't even reached his prime. Most NBA players take atleast 6 years before they truly understand their game. Right now, I think we're going through an identity crisis. I think Rudy just now is trying to implement their set plays they work in practice. It isn't completely fluent yet as can be seen with all the turn overs in tonights game, so Francis and Mobley, and the whole team gets frustrated and does their own thing. That's my personal observation. That's also why I think so many of the bench players are getting so much play time right now. They're running the set plays better then the starters right now, so I think Rudy sends them out to show an example to the starters of how the offense should be run. Back to the topic though. We got a lot of potential in our guys invidually and as a team. We just got a lot of growing up to do still. Once we become a good road team, and everyone establishes their role to the team, and we develop a deep bench, and Ming and Francis reach their NBA primes, and we have our offense run fluently and we handle all the big issues, the next thing we'll address are the small things that wins Championships. And that'll be a few years before we even get that far. I realize these are hectic times to be a Rockets fan. I almost feel bi-polar from simply watching the Rockets play so beautiful one night, and completely break down the next game. It makes me want to pull out my hair! But patience is a virtue, and we'll need lots of it. Have some patience and we'll get there, and when we do, just think how sweet it'll be knowing that we were all here through the good times and the bad times, as all the bandwagon fans join us when we get that ring.
Nice posts, leebigez and LB. As noted, although progress has been slow and sporadic, the team is making progress. Defense has improved substantially, offense minimally. I think the current roster definitely has the talent to win a title without making any trades, if they can get a little chemistry and (the guards especially) play smarter. I think the 2004-2005 season is the earliest we can realistically hope to be in serious contention for the title. I would love for the Rox to prove me wrong. I am very much against making a trade now. Although I get tired of hearing all the *we are young, we were injured* excuses, the reality is that the core of this team has had little time on the floor together. They deserve that opportunity. The one exception to my advocating the patience route has to do with the expansion draft. After the 2003-2004 season, each team will only be able to protect 8 players on its roster. Even assuming Rice is gone/not protected and we don't protect Mooch, we will have to expose one of Cato, MoT, TMo, or Boki (assuming we resign TMo after this season). If we could consolidate our roster by trading two of our players for one, I would look hard at that. But unless the trade were one of those *perfect fits*, I would be inclined to hold tight. LB - I hear Baylor School of Medicine is running clinical trials for bald, bipolar Rockets fans. My own personal problem is that I keep having this dream in which the Rockets meet up with Dorothy in the Land of Oz, and Stevie, Cat and Mooch team up with the scarecrow to get brains, EG goes with the tinman to get a heart, and MoT tags along with the Lion to get the courage to rebound in the paint. Yao hangs out with the winged monkeys just to learn to be mean. Unfortunately, Rudy gets lost in the poppy fields.
1. No. Not champion. 2. Compare to powers : Sacremento Dallas SA Phoenix Utah All smart. All have dominant PF. Top 2 are offense machines, super passing, zone d. Up-tempo, good shooters, very strong at 1 and 4., defenders at 2, shooters at 3, passing jump shooters at 5. To compete, we need to be able to contain and exceed this attack. We need to move faster, set up faster, compete defensively and demand effort and respect offensively at the primary positions. Better game plan and coaching. Trade needed? Yes. Current cast will not match up now or 2 years from now with combined threat at 2,3,4 from competition. Griffin, Posey, Mobely insufficient threat and not smart as unit. Trade for Brand or SAR now ? Depends on price. But Griffin and Mobely should not be off-limits. Certainly Rice, Taylor, Moochie others not off-limits. Price/value metric. Coaching help needed, too. X/O and discipline.
I think most of our inconsistencies are a result of home games vs. road games. The Rockets are not a good team on the road, but can contend for a title at home, and I don't understand why. I wouldn't want to add another superstar player like Brand to this team. Down the line, you'd have Francis with a maxed out contract, Yao with a maxed out contract, and then ANOTHER player with a maxed out contract? That basically means our bench is playing for the league minimum. One of the strengths of this team is the depth, which we couldn't afford with another maxed out player. So for longevity's sake, and for a competitive bench, I think we should not add another superstar type player.
Yeah, I'm sure he is much happier with the fundamentally sound Clippers. They can't do anything but win a championship this year.
I say we should sit tight. Short term thinking never works out. I think that if we trade Griff we'll definately be sorry for it down the road. He has the potential to give more than Shareef and as much as Brand, if not more. I know it's only potential, but I can live with that from a 20 yr old. Yao is the type of player that wins championship's. One because of the skill he possesses, two because of the position he plays. Everyone complains saying we need A. Miller or some miracle play maker, I think Yao will help carry the load of playmaking in a couple of years. Cuttino seems to improve every year and I don't see it stopping any time soon because of his work ethic. He won't even be 30 around the time this team is getting to be a major power and he'll be the old guy! Which brings us to Steve. I agree that Steve makes mistakes handling the ball sometimes, but I think the more he plays with this team and gets used to other guys besides Cat he'll start playing a better team game. Also seeing his teammates improve doesn't help the cause. As it stands now there are only a couple of guys I would trade Steve for and no Bibby isn't even close to being one of them. Yao will need a player with Steve's talent if we're to win championships. The only thing I worry about is depth and chemistry and hopefully that will come especially if Boki pans out. I know it's hard to go on "what could be," but I feel that it's a risk worth taking. If everything works out we should have a stronger team than dallas and even the kings in a couple of years and I don't consider utah or Phoenix to be elite teams. I guess we'll see.
I understand the thought of that, but the players I'm talking about are only a couple of yrs older than Griffin anyway. SAR is 25 and Brand is 23. Both player are still getting better and should be good for at least another 7 yrs. I'm kinda one of those people who think this team can be tweeked a little. With the sorriness of the Clipps and hawks ight now they can be hadHow much better would the rockets be with a Ming/Brand combo or Ming SAR combo than with the one we have now? How about 2 or 3 yrs from now? Sure SAR has a max deal and it would take a salary like Taylor and a talent like griffin to get him. Would that be too much? Getting Brand who is still on rookie deal deal would haveto involve griffin and maybe mobley along with Q or maggette to get all the numbers in order. I will say this, if somehow LA pulls of the deal and get SAR, we will be battling Minny for that 8th playoff spot this yr. Do you really want to be lotto bound again?
I agree witht the first part, but it seems like that number is just getting pushed farther and farther back. I hope the BBS won't be saying: "Just give them time, they've only played 287 games, they need time to find chemistry." What's the magic number that no longer excuses sloppy offense, no jump shots, and 2nd rate coaching?
I think the difference in opinion rests on how we view the ideal power foward. are you looking for: A. Rashard Lewis like player. 18 pts, 7 rebs, 2 blks, 1 steal B. Brian Grant like player. 10 pts, 13 rebs, 1 blk... TOUGH interior defense and does the dirty work... If you favor choice A, then I can completely agree with you. I think Eddie will one day develop into that type of player. BUT if you think B, then we have issues.. Eddie is just not that type of player. His style of play, build, mind set etc. all favor the type A player. You may argue that SOMEDAY, he will develop into type B but it is highly unlikely. Personally, I think the Rox are in dire need of the Type B player. Wheter Brand fits this bill is another discussion but Eddie is clearly not the type B player. Perhaps we can still wait for him to grow into a good type A player like Rashard but the fact is, we still need to find the type B player somewhere..... whether today or 2 years from now... I do nto see this need being met internally with any of our current PFs...
lee- I think it's a very fine line. I'm a fairly staunch Griffin supporter, here's where I stand- If it's Griffin and starch for Elton Brand, that's a no brainer. You make the deal for a guy like Elton Brand-a bruising inside presence that's under 25 years old that's a top 5 rebounder and shot blocker, and can score 20 ppg is definitely worth it. I'd trade Griffin, throw in Nachbar, and picks (the pair of 2nd rounders owed by Chicago) if that would land Brand. I don't know if it would, though. I'm not sure what other cheap commodities we have past that...trading Griffin and say Mobley in the same deal is a whole 'nother animal that would require other tweaking to fill the hole of a guy who plays 40+ minutes a night. SG is the only position where we don't have a dedicated backup, so moving Cat means that someone new would be getting most of the minutes, or we'd see more of Moochie, which would probably lead to me gouging my eyes. Posey's transition took a few of weeks; are we prepared to go through that again? As for SAR...I'm not completely convinced. Brand's toughness, rebounding, and defense will translate for sure...SAR's scoring, I dunno. I think the whole argument that people use about guys not being winners to detract from guys like Brand and Dre Miller is pretty weak (see Bibby, Mike), but a guy like Rahim who doesn't play much defense, and isn't a really tough player is not as convincing a sell. I think it'd depend on the cost outside of Eddie (other pieces would obviously have to be involved for salary reasons)/ I think anyone older than that is not worth it. I don't trade Eddie for a Brian Grant type, even if it sacrifices this year.
