Once again I will get bashed, but Shane Battier is way OVER-RATED. Do not give me that I do not sit close enought, and he makes impacts that the average NBA fan does not see. I have had floor seats, and I have watched the Rockets for over 20 years, and I still do not get the fascination with this guy. I love him on this team, but we depend on him way to much. Also, I like Chuck Hayes but as a starter on my team I do not really care for him too much. An undersized Power Forward that does not score. I did not expect him to put Rodman rebound numbers but, if you are starting because of your defense and rebounding, we need to see it. I know the same excuse is going to be given, you cannot measure these guys by their box score. Well what can we measure them by? Their importance to the teams success? I need to remind you we are 15-17. With 50 games to go, we need every win we can get.
They were better in JVG's system that relied more on Yao and Tmac. But with the new motion offense we need more scoring abilities at these positions. I like them too as people and as hard working players, but we need an upgrade offensively at least at one of the positions.
Why? ok, i got this one. The optimistic result would be 35/50 though it sounds 'Mission Impossible 4'!
Love the title of the thread! Battier is a bencher at best. So is Chuck. Our genuis coach seems to think differently and so do his fans. JVG gets a little break because he didn't have Scola or really Bonzi last year, although he should have worked Bonzi into shape and then he would have had him for the playoffs and we probably beat Utah. Someone is doing the same thing by not working Steve into shape this year. Rick Adelman....YOU SIR ARE THE WEAKEST LINK!
Field Goals Rebounds pos min fgm-a 3pm-a ftm-a +/- off def tot ast pf st to bs ba pts R.Alston G 43:33 8-16 1-5 1-1 -3 0 1 1 2 0 1 3 0 0 18 L.Head G 33:14 4-11 2-5 0-0 -9 0 0 0 3 0 0 2 0 2 10 C.Hayes F 14:26 2-4 0-0 0-0 -2 1 5 6 1 4 1 0 0 1 4 S.Battier F 35:56 2-7 2-7 0-0 -8 2 0 2 1 3 0 2 1 0 6 M.Yao C 42:09 7-20 0-0 5-6 -2 3 10 13 2 4 1 4 0 0 19 B.Wells 29:21 8-14 0-1 9-12 +4 3 6 9 1 3 1 0 1 1 25 Battier is killing us and I don't expect too much from overrated Chuck Hayes either.
I'm guessing that you're directing this at me, though I don't know why you didn't post it in any of the other threads where this was being discussed. (Actually I do. You wanted a Shane bashing thread after a sub-par game.) I've never said that Battier does things that the average NBA fan doesn't see. The average NBA fan absolutely loves the guy. Whenever I've watched Rockets' games with fans of other teams, the one player that they're most impressed with is Shane Battier. If you watch him up-close and don't love him, you are in the minority big-time. Coaches love him, fans of the game love him, his teammates love him. I don't know what you mean by "rely on him too much". If you're saying that you want more scoring on the floor, that's fine. But you don't need it at every position. A good spot-up shooter that also happens to be an elite perimeter defender is a valuable commodity in the NBA. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that Memphis wishes that they could rely on Battier now that they're the worst team in the West.
while Chuck and Shane are better defenders, Wells and Scola are better rebounders, especially on offense end. I see the only way we can build teams like boston, phonix, gs ...is by out rebound them.
Once again a "Good Spot up Shooter?", his shots are not falling ,and it seems like we have a team full of spot up shooters. "Elite Defender?" I beg to differ. I see a lot of taking charges. I know everybody hated it when we played against the Grizzlies but Love it since he plays for the Rockets. But the refs are trying to crack down on it this year and I have seen more blocking fouls on Battier than charges. I mentioned the floor seats because I was once told on this forum that you have to sit close to appreciate Battiers game.
i always felt shane was an overrated player... if he isn't shooting 43-47% from behind the arc consistently then IMO he is worthless even defensively.
Exactly...and since I can't remember the last time that Chuck and Shane shut their man down from scoring in a game...I say that the added plus of Wells and Scola also being better scorers than Battier and Hayes means that they should start and play way more minutes than those two! But DON'T expect Rick "the genius" Adelman to make any changes in his starting lineup. I mean after all, we need the better players to come off the bench right...or otherwise our STARTERS would SUCK off the bench!
Here is my whole problem with Battier right now. We don't need scoring at every position on the court which is true. But 3 of the 5 positions on the court do not have scoring. They are PF (Hayes) PG (Alston) SF (Battier) So what do we do? We can get away with the PF not being a strict scorer as Yao will be in the post most of the time and when Yao goes out, Scola comes in at center, not PF, usually, so I wouldn't depend on Scola to be the third scorer too often. We keep on trying to upgrade the PG, but we just can't seem to do it. But there really hasn't been a PG free agent that has been worth it, and the market right now only has one starting caliber PG (Andre Miller, who I am not opposed to, but I am scared to death of his 3 pt shooting). So that leaves the SF position as the easiest and most practical to upgrade. Does Battier do enough that we hold on to him even though we can't do anything with 2 of our positions? If Maggette is available for say Battier and a little more do we hold on to Battier since he provides so much defense and spot up shooting? I think Battier although he brings so much, right now is a luxury that this team can not afford.
Nobody consider's Shane an all star, so I don't know how he is over rated. He is a good NBA player, nothing more or less. Like all of our role players he has strengths and weaknesses, and like most of our players he is shooting worse this year than he has in the past. You certainly aren't going to build a team around Battier, but that doesn't mean he can't be an important contributor on winning team. The problem is the Rockets have too many "glue" guys and not enough primary contributors. Combine that with the fact that our "stars" are good, but not dominating on a regular basis and you have a problem. When you have one "super star" playing vs the team with the best record in the league and that "super star" scores 19 points on 20 shots that isn't going to win too often.
Considering how terrible Memphis is doing, and how much they love Shane...can't we make a trade them to send him back? I DOUBT that they would take him back plus any other player not named Tmac or Yao, in exchange for Rudy Gay! But maybe we could give them say Shane and Snyder or Luther for Mike Miller!
That was me. If you don't think Battier is an elite perimeter defender, you either aren't watching close enough, or you have too high of expectations. He never, ever, ever gives up an easy shot. He has probably the best combination of strength, size, and lateral quickness among non-superstar perimeter players in the league. Here's the previous thread when you made the exact same points, and my rebuttal: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=139312 I stand by that. If you still think Tayshaun Prince or Josh Smith are better defenders than Shane, you either aren't watching Battier enough, or you're not watching Prince and Josh Smith enough. Hell, Battier is a better perimeter defender than Artest at this point.
Andre Miller would be a great addition. He's a very good finisher and the best playmaker that's been available to the Rockets in a while. It's the smartest way to increase the talent on the team. I'd argue that Battier is a better starter for a team with championship aspirations than Corey Maggette. Maggette is a black hole, makes a lot of bone-headed errors, and his playing style leads to a lot of injuries. He's certainly a better individual player and much better scorer than Battier, and that helps us right now. Personally, I don't trade players that I think can help me win a championship for players that I don't think can help me win a championship.
You did not just do the weakest link thing . . . Calvin Murphy would embarass Houston as a coach. It would be a sideshow.
Next game, keep a tally sheet of charges taken, contested shots vs uncontested shots, and deflections. These are common things that measure defensive efficiency. Battier and Hayes are in the top percentile in the entire league. The premise of your post is legit about offensive inabilities, however do not forget who our GM is. I promise you he has way cooler ways beyond defensive efficiency to MEASURE Hayes and Battier. Being that is his expertise and all.... Battier stich count - 59 and counting while wearing Rockets red
Again, it is easy to make these posts after a subpar game. Did you recently see Shane far outplay Rudy Gay in the Memphis game. I think he scored 18 points and grabbed 7 rebounds or so. Gay was held to 8. Where was your post on how Shane positively impacted the game. He also played a solid game against Toronto, and hit the game winner vs. the Lakers.
