I have seen several stories recently, including including this latest one from the Chronicle, about rumored immigration raids. Because of these rumors, people are going missing en mass. Construction sites are empty. Schools are now going empty. People clear out. A couple years ago, I heard a guy on talk radio who was a retired official in Immigration. I can't give exact quotes but I can paraphrase. He spoke frankly that despite what we hear outwardly in the news, behind closed doors this country is not interested in fixing the "immigration problem." He said it is in American's best interest to keep this population working AND keep them cheap and dumb. The current system (or lack thereof) accomplished this very well. These are uneducated people who are very happy performing hard manual labor because it is better than what they had in Mexico. But they have no chance for true advancement...which suits average Americans just fine. I saw a story on Ch 13 a week ago where another rumor apparently cleared construction sites. Construction managers were angry because they didn't have enough workers. The day labor hotspots were virtually empty. They were calling the immigration offices questioning such a tactic basically givinig them heat. Ch 13 then interviewed an immigration officer that said they would never do a raid on a construction site, as rumored. I find it interesting that there are obviously many illegal immigrants working these jobs sites as evidence to how they disperse on a rumor. That isn't shocking. But what is interesting is how quick the immigration office was to say they would never conduct such a raid. If they know they are there, why not do a raid? They have the authority. It is clear that this country stands to endure some painful episodes if we suddedly deported all illegal immigrants. As such, there are probably lobbiest that represent major companies to bog down any such effort. Individuals may want to enforce immigration laws, but businesses don't. As such, this "problem" will never be truely addressed.
Man I used to work for INS and that place was so ridicoulusly backed up and understaffed and mismanaged. It was a crying shame. You'd also be surprised at some of the things people will say to try and get amnesty, and the lies they will tell.
Sad, but true. I feel strongly against illegal immigration. (note - my mother and her family immigrated to Houston legally from Mexico) When an illegal alien kills his wife, who pays for the police to go out there? to investigate? Who pays for their medical aid? When an illegal Mexican goes on a killing spree, who pays for the FBI to track him down? Do you like the idea of a Mexican crossing to the U.S. and going on a killing spree? Isn't it bad enough that we have our own serial killers? Do you like the idea of Mexicans hopping the border and robbing, raping, and killing some Americans? People frequently defend this argument by saying thing like "Yeah, but they take jobs that most Americans won't do." That simply isn't true. The truth behind that statement is: "They take pay that most Americans wouldn't accept." Americans won't dig a ditch for $3 an hour. However, if you paid 'em $200 an hour to dig a ditch, most Americans would pick up a shovel. That's an exaggeration, but the point is - it's not that we're not willing to do the work. It's that we won't do slave labor for peanuts. Minimum wage was created to protect such labor practices, and the presence of illegal workers breaks down the minimum wage system and make competition impossible. (A lawn service that won't hire illegals can't compete with the lawn service that hires illegals for $1.50 an hour). When Jose and Maria cross the border illegally, and give birth to nine children, all nine of those kids are US citizens. Wouldn't you think that we'd realize what a huge danger that is? That is a nightmare formula for population explosion going completely out of control. This is also why the hispanic race (who are we kiddin' - let's call 'em Mexicans) has grown larger than any other minority in Houston, and now has a larger population here than any other race. I really wish the U.S. would take this problem more seriously. -- droxford
It's part of the American sham. We will let Mexicans into this country illegally but since they are illegal they can be paid much less than you would have to pay a legal American worker. This is fine by our politicians because....hey...it's not our fault Mexico has a crappy economy and no jobs. We will oblige taking on their workforce for hard labor jobs but we won't make it easy or fair to them in the process. Is this how we came to be known as the "land of opportunity"? I'm surprised that these illegals would be running away from their jobs due to some INS raid rumors. What benefit would our country gain by doing such raids? All the companies which previously hired these illegal workers at reduced labor costs would then have to hire Americans at minimum wage or higher as replacements. I'm sure a lot of these companies have a pretty powerful lobby force in Washington. There would be an uproar. So, why would the INS want to do anything to tilt the balance of what has been going on for decades? I could see a terrorist sneaking in from Mexico doing some damage and then our government starts cracking down on illegal Mexican laborers. Then, where will we be? The whole thing stinks to high heaven if you ask me. Obviously, the Mexican workers are the ones who pay the price in many ways. It's wrong and something needs to be done about it. If their going to come here for work, then we need to figure out a system which is amicable for both sides. I thought Bush was working on some changes to better the situation but I haven't heard anything on this for so long that I think it was swept under the rug probably so he can focus on what he does best...which is use violence to create peace(oh the irony).
While I'm sure this is true, I would point to this as a byproduct of the underlying issue...rather than the cause. Clearly INS isn't a priority. You hear so many people, esp. conservatives, complaining about immigration but nothing ever happens. Fact is, illegal immigrants are good for our economy.
They already have a great system that keeps everybody happy. Install an extremely under staffed and under financed INS dept. This serves many purposes: 1. The U.S. government is happy because they can pretend we are doing something about it to appease the public. 2. The American public is happy because we put up a false front so people don't causually walk in. They at least have to put a little effort into getting here. Not too much though. 3. Business are happy because INS keep people running scared. So they can pay them sweat shop wages to bolster profits. 4. Illegal immigrants are happy as long as the Mexican economy stays bad. And the immigrants will stay happy because they never have access to a decent education here. That way they'll never know any better and will always remain happy about working long-hard hours for little pay. There. Everybody is happy. It is a perfect system. The only thing that can throw this whole dance out of kilter, as Droxford mentions, is if a terriorist takes advantage of the nearly perfect system we setup. I don't think one serial killer would do it. We already saw that. Many serial killers might but that is unlikely.
The only way an immigration crackdown would work is by concurrently eliminating the minimum wage. Do you think the liberals will let you do that?
Liberals haven't talked effectively about minimum wage in years. As such, many of the poorer white voters now vote republican on social issues such as religion and abortion. At this point, even conservatives wouldn't dare touch the subject of eliminating minimum wage because this would deeply affect their constituents too. It's a pickle we are in. If terrorists wanted to shut down this country, they should exploit our southern border. That'll force us to tighten it down and severely disrupt our economy.
I saw a report awhile back that they are exploiting the southern border. Security in the desolate parts of the border and in certaom national parks have increased due to terrorists coming in from Mexico. It also aired a story about an agent who was ambushed on the border by a few Mexicans. They were hiding in some brush at night while he was investigating some suspicious activity on the border. They then jumped out and peppered him with a shotgun. He was fairly young. Sad story.
Lack of response to this thread is also interesting. So next time you hear anybody say that this country has a horrible immigration problem and we need to fix it, tell them...nobody cares about this issue. Even more, we have a vested interest not to fix it. It is working perfectly.
I recently spent a month in Mexico and one day met someone who had been denied a visa to visit her family in Wisconsin. They conveniently didn't tell her about some sort of fee that she subsequently missed paying; hence, she can't re-apply for five years. I don't know if it's even worth mentioning. They have a lot of people applying there. The line snaked around the corner at the U.S. embassy, people waiting to apply for visas, whatever. They'll come up with chickens**t ways to keep people out while they turn a blind eye in other corners. Maybe holding Mexicans out of the U.S. is like holding back the tide with a broom, I don't know. The southern border of Mexico is worse. Porous.
If you eliminate the minimum wage, then the jobs that have left here to go to countries with dirt cheap labor like Mexico would stay here, creating more unemployment there. And where do you think those newly unemployed would go. The minimum wage in the U.S. helps countries like Mexico.
undocumented workers don't necessarily make minimum wage...but even if they did, this makes no sense. The reason why undocumented workers take toilet cleaning & dishwashing jobs is because American workers won't do them at current wages. You propose that by ending minimum wage, wages here will go down to match the wages in latin america, thus ending immigration? Wrong. Cutting off illegal imigration would cause these wages to go up, because you're cutting off your supply of cheap labor. That's pretty basic.
Krosyfyah, is correct. Many Americans don't want to deal with immigration. Many Republicans including those who love Bush, support the war on Iraq and hate taxes on the wealthy and all the rest, hire illegals and make money off of them. Many Americans, including those who vote Republican, employ those without papers to cut their lawns, take care of their children, their sick and for other jobs. The best way to deal with immigration is for the US to spend money on promoting better working conditiions in Latin America. Why not spend $5 billion a month on developing Latin America instead of trying to prevent Iraqis from doing what they want. You know it is actually easier to promote democracy among those who clearly want it. Instead we help fund death squads to kill union leaders in those countries to keep the wages down. The wages payed by the maquiladoras and other US companies in Latin America are poor and only what the market, distorted by death squad suppression of worker's wages, will support. We really should exert pressure for Mexico to increase its minimum wage and enforce it.
If you're an illegal alien, you're not subject to the Bill of Rights. You could vanish to Gitmo or even some garbage dump for no good reason. With such a poor stigma given to hiring illegal aliens, they're now calling it corporate insourcing with considerable tax breaks.
Illegal immigration is mostly a problem in states along the border (Texas, New Mexico, Arizona). Political nominees in those states want as many hispanic votes as they can get. If they fight for better immigration policies, they won't get votes. Or, if they're already in office... If they support stronger immigration policies, they will be betraying hispanic groups and voters that got them into office. Meanwhile, the people bomb continues to explode and destroy us. It will get exponentially worse. -- droxford
Good point. Glynch, I like that. Instead of spending billions of dollars halfway accross the world, why don't we spend that money in our own hemisphere. At least we could acheive something for some people that are open to our help. People argue that human rights issues were (and still are) so bad in Iraq. Well, it ain't no cake walk in Central and South America. To bolster these economies, done properly, would raise the standards for everybody including Americans too.
Or we could keep the money within our borders and let the rest of the world deal for themselves. Anyone have a road near their home that needs fixing?
I don't think you quite followed me. The whole point is that undocumented workers don't make minimum wage. If you eliminate the supply of undocumented workers, then you have to make it legal to pay citizens what the illegals were making, otherwise the economy falls apart. Either that or you just have tremendous inflation as salaries everywhere go up so people can pay for the $300 a night motel rooms and $5 oranges. I think you have it backwards. The reason why people hire illegals is that they can pay them under minimum wage. If there was no minimum wage, you could hire poor unskilled citizens to do the same work for the same pay that illegals are making now. Do you really think a starving homeless person wouldn't take a job as a hotel housekeeper or a farmworker?
