No Israeli massacre at Jenin, U.N. concludes 08/01/2002 From Richard Roth CNN UNITED NATIONS (CNN) -- Israeli forces did not massacre civilians at the Jenin refugee camp last March, a U.N. report concludes, refuting Palestinian claims that as many as 500 people died there. Diplomats who have seen the report, which will be released Thursday morning, told CNN it concludes that the Palestinian death toll is a "figure that cannot be substantiated in light of the evidence that has emerged." The Israeli Defense Forces put the death toll at 52, the report notes. Israel launched a military operation in Jenin in April after a series of suicide bombings that killed more than two dozen Israeli civilians. Israeli officials claimed the refugee camp was the base for most of the bombing attacks. However, one diplomat who has read the report told CNN that it makes clear that both sides acted carelessly and "equally badly" when it came to protecting human life. The diplomat said both the Israelis and Palestinians were "equally brutal." The report criticizes Israeli forces for not allowing emergency vehicles, humanitarian workers and journalists into the camp in some cases. Two diplomats who have read the report said it concludes that Palestinian forces deliberately placed themselves in civilian areas, forcing the Israelis to hunt for them among civilians. Because Israel refused to cooperate with the U.N. investigation, the report's authors never went to Jenin or related camps. It was written based on newspaper stories, submissions from six U.N. member countries and accounts from Palestinians and non-governmental organizations. Because of this, the report offers indirect comments, rather than subjective judgments, according to one diplomat who has seen the document. After the violence in Jenin, Israel first accepted a U.N. mission. But it balked after Secretary-General Kofi Annan appointed a team led by three experienced diplomats, rather than military figures. After the U.N. Security Council declined to support the mission in the face of Israeli opposition, the U.N. General Assembly voted in favor of issuing a fact-finding report on what happened in Jenin. At the behest of Arab countries, the General Assembly will meet Monday to hear speeches based on the report. ----------------------------------- This is why you can't believe every big accusation that comes out of the so called "independent media." Yes, I'm talking about BBC News/reuters... After the battle in Jenin, they were ready to hang Sharon for war crimes.
The fact is that there is a TON of unacceptable behavior on BOTH sides of this conflict. The Isrealis are oppressive and have caused the Palestinians to have no economy. The Palestinians have become ultra-violent. What we are seeing out of the Palestinians is are the acts of a desparate people. It takes a lot to get the average guy to blow himself to pieces for a cause. what we really have here is two groups that will not be satisfied until all of the other group is dead.
This is really unbelievable....the whole thing was made up?? Who made it up??? Who knew it was made up but reported it as truth, nonetheless?? This story really glazes over the fact that this was reported as a massacre.
I like how this was casually stuck into the middle: <B><I>the report's authors never went to Jenin or related camps</I>. It was written based on newspaper stories, submissions from six U.N. member countries and accounts from Palestinians and non-governmental organizations.</B> I'm not saying this shows Israel did or didn't do anything wrong, but I wouldn't put much weight either way on a report that isn't based off of any actual observation.
WHAT !!!! YOU MEAN THE PALASTINIANS LIED??? Like they have been lying about wanting peace, or about helping root out Hamas....or about their true objectives? Israel is just protecting it's citizens. DaDakota
At this point maybe. You have to understand the history on this. The first thing Israel did was to roll the tanks in when they created the state of Israel in 1948 and the Palestinians didn't want to leave. BOTH sides are wrong here.
Ref, Agreed, but only one side is targeting civilians...and that makes them MORE wrong. Ask yourself this question, if the suicide bombings stopped today, do you think Israel would still be rolling tanks into the west bank? Nope, they would be negotiating a deal for a Palastinian state. Hamas knows this and has the palastinian people hoodwinked into believing that Israel must be destroyed. Hamas is what needs to be destroyed...by whatever means necessary. DaDakota
The first thing they did was militarize. That is uncontroverted. Perhaps they didn't roll the tanks in until later...but it happened pretty early on.
Considering that several Arab League countries attacked Israel in May 1948, wouldn't that be the prudent thing to do?
Good point...no doubt about it. The problem is that once they militarized and gained the upper hand, they have consistently used that upper hand to keep the Palestinians from living a normal life. It all looks a lot like the Catholics in Northern Ireland to me. All of that being said, I do NOT advocate or condone what the Palestinians have done in response. BOTH sides have exhibited barbaric behavior and that should not be tolerated.
That might have been prudent. But after securing a victory going to the UN resolution might have prudent too. Instead of continually expanding contrary to treaties and laws, wasn't right either.
That's a pretty misleading headline. It captures the essence of the conclusion that the 500 alleged deaths was a fabrication. But, it kinda ignores that 50 people were killed, that ambulances, journalists and humanitarian workers were denied entry, and that they could not independently verify anything themselves because of stonewalling by the Israeli government.
Also what's interesting here is that some people read the article and then called the Palestinians liars and talked about they made the stuff up. However the article does say one thing So nothing in the article excuses what the Israelis did, nothing says the Palestinians did worse things, but so far no one has railed against the Israeli behavior. I guess the phrases ''equally badly" and "equally brutal" mean different things to different people.
I have been stating that BOTH sides are wrong in this conflict. But you have to understand that the Palestinians have taken poor behavior and made it an art form. I don't think that both sides are equally brutal. They are boith wrong...but not equally brutal. When was the last time that an Israeli hijacked a jet and flew it into an office tower? There is no way they are equally brutal.
Actually Refman, the mistake is mine. You did state that they both were wrong. I apologize to you for my omission. I agree terrorism the wrong way to go about things no matter what the conditions. Though for the record, Palestinians didn't hijack a plain and fly it into an office tower either.
What two groups are you referring to here? Surely you don't believe that the Israelis "won't be satisfied until all of the other group are dead"... ?
All dead? Maybe not, but there are plenty of Israelis who do want the entire area to be ISrael and for there to be no Palestinian state.
Nevermind, I found a link... UN's version of the history of this conflict Arnold J. Toynbee who, before becoming recognized as an eminent world historian had dealt directly with the Palestine Mandate in the British Foreign Office, wrote in 1968: "All through those 30 years, Britain (admitted) into Palestine, year by year, a quota of Jewish immigrants that varied according to the strength of the respective pressures of the Arabs and Jews at the time. These immigrants could not have come in if they had not been shielded by a British chevaux-de-frise. If Palestine had remained under Ottoman Turkish rule, or if it had become an independent Arab state in 1918, Jewish immigrants would never have been admitted into Palestine in large enough numbers to enable them to overwhelm the Palestinian Arabs in this Arab people's own country. The reason why the State of Israel exists today and why today 1,500,000 Palestinian Arabs are refugees is that, for 30 years, Jewish immigration was imposed on the Palestinian Arabs by British military power until the immigrants were sufficiently numerous and sufficiently well-armed to be able to fend for themselves with tanks and planes of their own . "
The massacre that wasn't: http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=8646 "I was in the Jenin refugee camp on April 16. In addition to noting that there was no smell of death in the camp and that the booby-traps and anti-personnel bombs laid out by the Palestinian gunmen were still very much in evidence..." - Dan Gordon, a "peace activist who has held meetings with Arab leaders in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza." ============================================= Middle East Media Research Institute (you may need to scroll down to report IA#90) reports the following: "Today, one of the children came to me with his school bag," Abu Jandal, Jenin's Islamic Jihad commander, told al-Jazeera. "I asked him what he wanted, and he replied, 'Instead of books, I want an explosive device, in order to attack.' " Memri says there were contradictory reports about the role of civilians in the fighting, and about the number of civilians present in the camp. "Even the youths had a significant role in the uprising," Sheikh Ab Al-Hija says on the Web site http://www.palestine-info.info/ . "It was necessary for some of the women to remain [in the camp] to provide services for the fighters." But in an al-Jazeera interview, Jamal Abd Al-Salam, a Hamas commander, "said that the women, children, and elderly had left the camp, and that the fighters intended to fight to the last drop of blood." Either way it seems clear few true civilians were present. ============================================= From the Jerusalem Post: "One camp resident wanted me to stage a photograph. He pulled me into a home on the perimeter of the destruction. The front of the house was peeled away like a thin veneer. The floor was buckled, and the few pictures that remained on the walls were tilted at a distressing angle. But then the man lay face down on a mattress, splayed out his arms, and closed his eyes. When I didn't take his picture he looked up at me and said, "You take picture now." I declined." ============================================= The L.A. Times notes that during the battle, Israeli soldiers "arrested a 6-year-old boy ferrying three pipe bombs from one building to another." ============================================= Here's some before & after pictures of the Jenin refugee camp. Note that the area of destruction ("horrific widespread devestation" if you work for The Guardian) is about 100 yards X 100 yards. The Jerusalem Post states: "Brig.-Gen. Eyal Shlein, commander of the troops in the Jenin area, stressed that the area where the buildings were destroyed occupies only a 10th of the camp's total area, a radius of 70 meters by 100 meters. All the destroyed buildings were booby-trapped by the Palestinians or used as fortified positions in attacking soldiers, he said. ============================================= From the Washington Post: "It's been incredibly difficult to tell the difference between fighters and civilians," said Peter Bouckaert, a senior researcher with Human Rights Watch in New York, who evaded Israeli checkpoints to sneak into the camp. "I think it's clear that in the end what actually happened in Jenin will fall somewhere in between what the Palestinians are alleging and what [the Israeli army] claims." =============================================
