Last year every 3 in the league destroyed us, We had walt no d shandon too short, bullard ? we love him to much to say anything bad. The bigDirk Dillinger, Garnett, Marion ,Pierce, Peja St., Vince Carter , Mcgrady did us dirty. Glen has no d left in his bones and Eddie is still going to be a rookie no matter how great he will be. Let me know what you guy think? Same problem from last season.
If you're going to post, at least have some evidence. And by the way, Garnett is a 4, unless you consider Wally Szczerbiak a 4. Averages against the Rockets: Carter-- 23 points, 4 rebounds (well below average) McGrady-- 33.5 points, 6 rebounds (a little above average for him, nowhere near destroying us) Nowitzki--25.2 points, 10.2 rebounds *** What makes Dirk's average jump up against us was a 35 and 12 game he had playing power forward against the Rockets. Take away that game and Dirk averages 22 points and 10 rebounds against us. (average for him) Marion-- 14 points, 8.5 rebounds (well below average) Stojakovic-- 20.6 pts, 3.3 reb (average) Pierce-- 23.5 pts, 5 reb (average) Doesn't look like they "did us dirty" to me. Out of the 6 SF's you mentioned, 2 played well below average, 3 played average, and 1 played slightly above average. Do some research before you post broad statements.
Don't worry. The Cat isn't being snippy, just factual. The Cat is a database manager, but gollleeeee, I don't know how the Cat finds time to load all those stats. The board is better off for it though.
For someone who's stated his dislike for Shanderson at the 3 last season, Cat, you've just done a pretty good job defending him.
Shandon no doubt is a valuable commodoty consider a 6'6" small forward showed so much effort on "D". He is gonna be missed. Glen Rice is a good shooter, But can't give a lot of defense.
For someone who's stated his dislike for Shanderson at the 3 last season, Cat, you've just done a pretty good job defending him. Possibly, yes. But Shandon only played about 20-25 minutes per game in most games. About half the time Cuttino or Walt were guarding those premier SF's, and people on the BBS don't exactly respect their defense either. Also, remember, several of the games used to make these averages were when Shandon was starting at SG for the first two months of the season. Shandon did play a part in those averages, but I wouldn't say it was all because of him.
Garnett is a 4, and Wally is a 2, but last season, from what I saw, the Wolves started Nesterovic or Garrett at center, Ellis, Garnett, Wally, Brandon. Sometimes they went with Garrett/Nesterovic, Garnett, Wally, Billups, and Brandon out there, but if they put their best five on the floor it would be the first lineup mentioned. Also, we have Griffin, Morris, Mobley, and Thomas who are all okay defenders to rotate over to the 3. I suppose Morris will be our "Defensive Stopper" at the 3.
This topic has been thoroughly covered on this BBS already. I wouldn't be surprised if Cat simply cut and pasted those stats from a previous message. Since we are repeating ourselves...with Zone Defense, individual defenders will be less susceptible. GRice and Walt don't have to play 1-on-1 against serious threats. My opinion is what happened last year defensively doesn't really apply going forward. We'll have to wait and see just how much the zone thing changes the game, however. Also, Griff will probably play a lot of 3 or 4 depending where he is needed defensively. So if somebody "explodes" on the Rocks, I'm sure Griff will get his hand at the action to try and slow them down. I'm not worred about our perceived lack of D. -krosfyah
But Cat, isnt that when Shandon was playing LAST year. So that means that Shandon was the most responsible for those SF's. Now that Shandon is gone, those averages will go higher!!
Uh huh. But unless I missed something, he averaged 29 minutes per game last season. 3rd most on the team. I must've missed that one game where he played 580 minutes, skewing the average. And it would make sense that Shandon spent most of his 29 minutes guarding those premiere players (after all he did start, and was in there for his defense), while Cat/Walt/Kenny/Matt/whoever went up against the other team's backup.
Good Point about Morris being our defensive stopper at the 3 vj23k.He is a good defender,has long arms and is 6'9".Shandon will be missed but Rice,Morris and Griffin will all take turns at defending opposite 3's, KTa and Mo will also slide at the spot to help out.
Good Point about Morris being our defensive stopper at the 3 vj23k.He is a good defender,has long arms and is 6'9".Shandon will be missed but Rice,Morris and Griffin will all take turns at defending opposite 3's, KT and Mo will also slide at the spot to help out. Sorry for the typo error in the previous post.
SamCassell -- do you find it funny at all that Shandon played more minutes per game than Taylor, but we can't use stats to defend Shandon's D, and the opposite is true for Taylor? I guess Mo never guarded the other team's center, right?
Freak, I'm just trying to go by what you guys want. Everyone was juding Mo, Webber, and others by stats, so I showed some stats of Mo's defense. You guys essentially said stats don't tell the whole story. Fine. Well, if stats don't tell the whole story on Mo's defense, they don't on Shandon's either. Which is it guys? Do the below average stats of other premier SF's and PF's make Mo and Shandon good defenders, or do they not tell the whole story? You can't have it one way for Mo, and the other way for Shandon. VJ, Ellis rarely started for the Twolves, and they very rarely used Garrett/Nesterovic at important stretches of the game. They always started Brandon, Billups/Peeler/Lopez, Wally, KG, and Slater/Nesterovic. Sam, You know the Rockets went with Mooch, Steve, and Cuttino in the 4th quarter almost every game, so don't give me this bit about Cat guarding the backups. Actually, since everyone gives the credit to Shandon, how about this. Let's take a look at the stats from top small forwards against Glen Rice when he either started or got 29+ minutes. Magic April 3 Rice-- 31 minutes Tracy McGrady-- 4 points, 1 rebound (was just in 15 minutes, but for 15 minutes, that is well below average) Kings March 27 Rice-- 33 minutes Peja Stojakovic-- 29 points, 9 rebounds (above average, was an OT game though) Raptors March 4 Rice-- 30 minutes Vince Carter-- 23 points, 8 rebounds (below average) Celtics March 1 Rice-- 29 minutes Paul Pierce-- 23 points, 7 rebounds (average to below average) By the way, this wasn't one of the listed SF's, but this should be mentioned. Knicks December 17 Glen Rice-- 32 points (10-21 shooting, 5-6 3 pt FG), 14 rebounds, 47 minutes Glenn Robinson-- 23 points (8-26 shooting), 11 rebounds, 5 fouls, 48 minutes Raptors December 14 Rice-- 34 minutes Vince Carter-- 24 points, 8 rebounds (average to below average) Raptors November 24 Rice-- 34 minutes Vince Carter-- 25 points, 7 rebounds (average to below average) Celtics November 14 Rice-- 34 minutes Paul Pierce-- 35 points, 4 rebounds (above average) There were a couple of good games in there, but there were against Shandon too. For the most part, these "premier" SF's in games that Rice played 30+ minutes did relatively average, and some below average.
I don't know that Mooch always played the full 4th quarter, Cat. He often did, but seldom when the opponent had a premiere small forward. Rudy matched up 3guard more often when the other team was also small. Also, I never said not to use stats. They are a useful tool when used correctly, and necessary since few of us see every minute of every game. But we all know that they don't tell the whole story, especially on defense, because so much of the statistics depend on the team's defensive scheme. I do think that Mo's an average defensive power forward. Pretty good, not great. Holds his position well but decidedly below average snagging defensive boards. He's got the body and skills to be above-average, but he needs to work hard in the offseason and trade some body fat for muscle. By the way, has anyone heard from him this summer in terms of playing, working out, or anything other than the new contract? Shandon's a well above-average defensive guard who was forced to play the 3 alot last season, where he gives up alot of height and bulk but was still average to slightly above average. Ultimately he just didn't fit on a team that emphasized half-court ISO's and that 24-high play crispee's always talking about, instead of a full-speed running game and multiple passing to find the open man, where Shandon would have had a better chance to succeed. And his defensive skills were wasted with the position change. But even at the 3, he gave 100% even though he was often overmatched. Rice is a below-average small forward defensively. He's not laterally quick (never has been, and he's lost some in the last few seasons), although he has some bulk to defend in the post against most guys. Plus he's been hurt with that foot problem and other ailments. Those stats you've given for him are completely false, though, since Van Gundy always matched up Spree against the other team's biggest scorer at the 2 or 3 (and sometimes at the 1). Rice and Houston consistantly defended a weaker player. I do think any defensive weaknesses that he has should be masked by a good defensive zone. So it makes sense from that standpoint to trade defense for offense, especially a shooter who can burn the zone consistantly. Freak, . Congrats on your new title as "crank". If only I was cool enough to get summed up in one word by Will.
Ridiculous... Anyone who cries about Rice's lack of defense needs to realize that the NBA has new rules for defense... There aren't many... This means, that poor man-to-man defenders, (our whole team) will be able to be disguised since teams will be able to double team much easier than last year, as well as having the ability to rotate on defense faster... All because they don't have to worry about illegal D... Hell, we might see a little zone defense... If you know anything about basketball, you will realize that TEAM DEFENSE is 10X's more important than having man-to-man stoppers... The NY Knicks are proof of this... Is Mark Jackson a good defender? HELL NO Sprewell? Decent Houston? Decent LJ? HELL NO Camby? Yes Despite Camby being a good defender, he is NOT a good man-to-man defender mainly because his lack of size hurts him... But he's a great defender in the sense that he clogs up the middle... How is NY able to have one of the best defenses in the NBA? Defensive rotation... The Knicks have the ability to double team anyone, while being able to rotate to the open man fast enough to not give them good shots... Doing this, makes the shot clock your ally, because their opponents keep swinging the ball around to the "open man" who is now checked by a Knick... The defensive chemistry of the Knicks is amazing... They all know their assignments and know where their teammates will be... My point is, that it is possible to have a team full of poor man-to-man defenders as long as you have a decent shot blocker (Cato?), and good teamwork...
Kidrock... You very graciously posted that Allen Houston is a decent defender.........he makes Walt look like Michael Cooper!!!!!
