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New York Times Endorses Hillary Clinton

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Deckard, Jan 24, 2008.

  1. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I don't know how much this will influence the primaries, but thought it worthy of a thread.


    [​IMG]

    January 25, 2008

    Editorial

    Primary Choices: Hillary Clinton

    This generally is the stage of a campaign when Democrats have to work hard to get excited about whichever candidate seems most likely to outlast an uninspiring pack. That is not remotely the case this year.

    The early primaries produced two powerful main contenders: Hillary Clinton, the brilliant if at times harsh-sounding senator from New York; and Barack Obama, the incandescent if still undefined senator from Illinois. The remaining long shot, John Edwards, has enlivened the race with his own brand of raw populism.

    As Democrats look ahead to the primaries in the biggest states on Feb. 5, The Times’s editorial board strongly recommends that they select Hillary Clinton as their nominee for the 2008 presidential election.

    We have enjoyed hearing Mr. Edwards’s fiery oratory, but we cannot support his candidacy. The former senator from North Carolina has repudiated so many of his earlier positions, so many of his Senate votes, that we’re not sure where he stands. We certainly don’t buy the notion that he can hold back the tide of globalization.

    By choosing Mrs. Clinton, we are not denying Mr. Obama’s appeal or his gifts. The idea of the first African-American nominee of a major party also is exhilarating, and so is the prospect of the first woman nominee. “Firstness” is not a reason to choose. The times that false choice has been raised, more often by Mrs. Clinton, have tarnished the campaign.

    Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton would both help restore America’s global image, to which President Bush has done so much grievous harm. They are committed to changing America’s role in the world, not just its image. On the major issues, there is no real gulf separating the two. They promise an end to the war in Iraq, more equitable taxation, more effective government spending, more concern for social issues, a restoration of civil liberties and an end to the politics of division of George W. Bush and Karl Rove.

    Mr. Obama has built an exciting campaign around the notion of change, but holds no monopoly on ideas that would repair the governing of America. Mrs. Clinton sometimes overstates the importance of résumé. Hearing her talk about the presidency, her policies and answers for America’s big problems, we are hugely impressed by the depth of her knowledge, by the force of her intellect and by the breadth of, yes, her experience.

    It is unfair, especially after seven years of Mr. Bush’s inept leadership, but any Democrat will face tougher questioning about his or her fitness to be commander in chief. Mrs. Clinton has more than cleared that bar, using her years in the Senate well to immerse herself in national security issues, and has won the respect of world leaders and many in the American military. She would be a strong commander in chief.

    Domestically, Mrs. Clinton has tackled complex policy issues, sometimes failing. She has shown a willingness to learn and change. Her current proposals on health insurance reflect a clear shift from her first, famously disastrous foray into the issue. She has learned that powerful interests cannot simply be left out of the meetings. She understands that all Americans must be covered — but must be allowed to choose their coverage, including keeping their current plans. Mr. Obama may also be capable of tackling such issues, but we have not yet seen it. Voters have to judge candidates not just on the promise they hold, but also on the here and now.

    The sense of possibility, of a generational shift, rouses Mr. Obama’s audiences and not just through rhetorical flourishes. He shows voters that he understands how much they hunger for a break with the Bush years, for leadership and vision and true bipartisanship. We hunger for that, too. But we need more specifics to go with his amorphous promise of a new governing majority, a clearer sense of how he would govern.

    The potential upside of a great Obama presidency is enticing, but this country faces huge problems, and will no doubt be facing more that we can’t foresee. The next president needs to start immediately on challenges that will require concrete solutions, resolve, and the ability to make government work. Mrs. Clinton is more qualified, right now, to be president.

    We opposed President Bush’s decision to invade Iraq and we disagree with Mrs. Clinton’s vote for the resolution on the use of force. That’s not the issue now; it is how the war will be ended. Mrs. Clinton seems not only more aware than Mr. Obama of the consequences of withdrawal, but is already thinking through the diplomatic and military steps that will be required to contain Iraq’s chaos after American troops leave.

    On domestic policy, both candidates would turn the government onto roughly the same course — shifting resources to help low-income and middle-class Americans, and broadening health coverage dramatically. Mrs. Clinton also has good ideas about fixing the dysfunction in Mr. Bush’s No Child Left Behind education program.

    Mr. Obama talks more about the damage Mr. Bush has done to civil liberties, the rule of law and the balance of powers. Mrs. Clinton is equally dedicated to those issues, and more prepared for the Herculean task of figuring out exactly where, how and how often the government’s powers have been misused — and what must now be done to set things right.

    As strongly as we back her candidacy, we urge Mrs. Clinton to take the lead in changing the tone of the campaign. It is not good for the country, the Democratic Party or for Mrs. Clinton, who is often tagged as divisive, in part because of bitter feeling about her husband’s administration and the so-called permanent campaign. (Indeed, Bill Clinton’s overheated comments are feeding those resentments, and could do long-term damage to her candidacy if he continues this way.)

    We know that she is capable of both uniting and leading. We saw her going town by town through New York in 2000, including places where Clinton-bashing was a popular sport. She won over skeptical voters and then delivered on her promises and handily won re-election in 2006.

    Mrs. Clinton must now do the same job with a broad range of America’s voters. She will have to let Americans see her power to listen and lead, but she won’t be able to do it town by town.

    When we endorsed Mrs. Clinton in 2006, we were certain she would continue to be a great senator, but since her higher ambitions were evident, we wondered if she could present herself as a leader to the nation.

    Her ideas, her comeback in New Hampshire and strong showing in Nevada, her new openness to explaining herself and not just her programs, and her abiding, powerful intellect show she is fully capable of doing just that. She is the best choice for the Democratic Party as it tries to regain the White House.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/25/opinion/25fri1.html




    Impeach Bush.
     
  2. CBrownFanClub

    CBrownFanClub Member

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    How she gets off that easy for totally abdicating responsibility in voting for this god forsaken war is just beyond me. It's not 'all in the past' -it's emblematic of how politically compromised she (and Bill) can be at extraordinarily inopportune times. It's not an isolated event. It's a habit.
     
  3. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    One thing she does is to get others to have strong opinions about her. ;)




    Impeach Bush.
     
  4. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    New York Times Endorses Hillary Clinton

    It figures. Neither one can tell the truth.
     
  5. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    I think the NYT has a pretty good record compared to most other news outlets.
     
  6. deepblue

    deepblue Member

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    the Times also endorsed McCain, don't know if its a good thing for him.
     
  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    which is why she is not as electable - which is my primary concern.

    The dems get the whitehouse, unless it is Hills v. McCain, in which case it is a crapshoot.

    Is it worth the risk? Not to me. The last 8 years have driven that lesson home.
     
  8. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Probably because the Times, unfortunately, have their own amends to make in that regard.
     
  9. ivanyy2000

    ivanyy2000 Member

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    I'd rather go for sure things rather than unknowns. Obama is a big unknown. He has all the talks about future but he has very little past to back it up. You can't just talk your way to the most powerful position in the world, can you?

    Very interesting to see how he reacts to some of the adversities. It is very disappointing so far. He is getting slapped so bad by Bill and Hillary and it is not even funny.

    I am sure he can get some of the sympathy votes. :cool: But I can't image he is the future US president.
     
  10. Major

    Major Member

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    That's how you get continued mediocrity.

    I agree - he hasn't been a great candidate, which has been disappointing. But the real question to ask - are we trying to elect the best politician or the best leader? The fact that we generally do the former is why we're always disappointed with the quality of our leadership, whether at President or in Congress or at the state/local levels. This is not to say Obama would definitively be the best leader (that's a seperate and totally debatable issue) - but the argument that he doesn't fight as well on the campaign trail seems irrelevant to me as a reason to support or not support a candidate.
     
  11. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Seriously, what under what rock do you live? You are easily the most out of touch with truth and reality poster on this board.


    Take a 30 second read through this, brah
    http://www.antimedia.us/new_york_times/
     
  12. Mr. Brightside

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    I never understood why it was so important for a newspaper to endorse a candidate. The whole thing seems like a big ego trip for a newspaper. In addition, who makes up their mind on voting for President, based upon what a newspaper editorial board thinks?
     
  13. ivanyy2000

    ivanyy2000 Member

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    Well, that is up to personal preference. I happen to like to know a candidate by studying his/her past. Hillary may not be as inspirational as someone likes, she maybe too calculative and too much a politician. But I think she is very tough minded. She is tough enough and politically skilled enough to push her policies through (her policies proposed are actually very similar to Obama's, IMO)

    I believe whomever to be the next president will face incredible challenges right from the beginning. Bush has created so many masses that there is really no time for a new president to learn to do his job and spend 2 - 3 years in order to get on track. That is why I think Hillary is a better candidates than Obama given they have very similar policies and views. Obama, a state senator and a junior US senator, has demonstrated anything so far to show he is ready, IMO.

    I happen to believe a great leader almost has to be a great politician. You have to be flexible enough to negotiate and you also have to be tough enough to push your ideas through.

    Obama kind like T-Mac. He has all the flashy stuff and looks cool to support but he seems mentally weak. Only couple rounds and Bill Clinton is already under his skin? Image he is the US president and has to face guys like Putin.
     
  14. Refman

    Refman Member

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    You could either elect mediocrity, or take a risk on an unknown who may prove to be far less than mediocre.

    People tend to hedge their bets...it's a logical thing to do.
     
  15. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    hillary clinton = w****
     
  16. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    ^^^ And there you have it.

    No logical reason to throw out a slur like; that just blatant stupidity. And I'm convinced there are many more people out there that have the same visceral hatred for Hillary.

    She will energize the republicans like no one else if she wins the nomination.

    Even I'm not sure I can vote for her.
     
  17. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    Well, no logical reasons were posted and cited. However, there do exist many logical reasons to throw out a definition for her/it like that :D

    She/It will say/do anything to get ahead, get power, get money ~ which pretty much embodies the and captures the essence of a w**** ;)
     
  18. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    So by your definition we can assume Romney, hell any politician is a w****. But we don't call men that. We call them ambitious.

    :cool:
     
  19. Achilleus

    Achilleus Member

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    She will energize Republicans, but the misogynistic tones will galvanize women and others on the left. I'm sure her campaign welcomes those kinds of insults... It will be a really inspiring election if she is the nominee... :rolleyes:
     
  20. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    I see your point. And you are correct, all politicians are whores to some degree. The thing is Romney is just a lowly tool. You almost feel sorry for him because you know he's not gonna get anywhere in this election. And this even after blowing all his cash. So he's just not as good a w**** as hillary. She/It personifies the word. She/It brings it to life and makes the perception of vocabulary an unambiguous and palpable reality.

    And don't confuse this for a simple case of genderism. Chimpy aint ambitious. He's just a dumbass.
     

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