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New Poll of Iraqis: 82% Oppose US Occupation. 1% Think We Make Them Safer

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Oct 23, 2005.

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  1. glynch

    glynch Member

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    So much for the democracy angle. They didn't vote for us to invade and occupy and if given a vote would tell us to leave.

    ****
    Secret MoD poll: Iraqis support attacks on British troops
    By Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent
    (Filed: 23/10/2005)

    Millions of Iraqis believe that suicide attacks against British troops are justified, a secret military poll commissioned by senior officers has revealed.

    The poll, undertaken for the Ministry of Defence and seen by The Sunday Telegraph, shows that up to 65 per cent of Iraqi citizens support attacks and fewer than one per cent think Allied military involvement is helping to improve security in their country.

    Andrew Robathan
    Andrew Robathan: Government policy 'disastrous'

    It demonstrates for the first time the true strength of anti-Western feeling in Iraq after more than two and a half years of bloody occupation.

    The nationwide survey also suggests that the coalition has lost the battle to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people, which Tony Blair and George W Bush believed was fundamental to creating a safe and secure country.

    The results come as it was disclosed yesterday that Lt Col Nick Henderson, the commanding officer of the Coldstream Guards in Basra, in charge of security for the region, has resigned from the Army. He recently voiced concerns over a lack of armoured vehicles for his men, another of whom was killed in a bomb attack in Basra last week.

    The secret poll appears to contradict claims made by Gen Sir Mike Jackson, the Chief of the General Staff, who only days ago congratulated British soldiers for "supporting the Iraqi people in building a new and better Iraq".

    Andrew Robathan, a former member of the SAS and the Tory shadow defence minister, said last night that the poll clearly showed a complete failure of Government policy.

    He said: "This clearly states that the Government's hearts-and-minds policy has been disastrous. The coalition is now part of the problem and not the solution.

    Iraq factfile

    "I am not advocating a pull-out but if British soldiers are putting their lives on the line for a cause which is not supported by the Iraqi people then we have to ask the question, 'what are we doing there?' "

    The Sunday Telegraph disclosed last month that a plan for an early withdrawal of British troops had been shelved because of the failing security situation, sparking claims that Iraq was rapidly becoming "Britain's own Vietnam".

    The survey was conducted by an Iraqi university research team that, for security reasons, was not told the data it compiled would be used by coalition forces. It reveals:

    • Forty-five per cent of Iraqis believe attacks against British and American troops are justified - rising to 65 per cent in the British-controlled Maysan province;

    • 82 per cent are "strongly opposed" to the presence of coalition troops;

    • less than one per cent of the population believes coalition forces are responsible for any improvement in security;

    • 67 per cent of Iraqis feel less secure because of the occupation;

    • 43 per cent of Iraqis believe conditions for peace and stability have worsened;

    • 72 per cent do not have confidence in the multi-national forces.

    The opinion poll, carried out in August, also debunks claims by both the US and British governments that the general well-being of the average Iraqi is improving in post-Saddam Iraq.

    The findings differ markedly from a survey carried out by the BBC in March 2004 in which the overwhelming consensus among the 2,500 Iraqis questioned was that life was good. More of those questioned supported the war than opposed it.

    Under the heading "Justification for Violent Attacks", the new poll shows that 65 per cent of people in Maysan province - one of the four provinces under British control - believe that attacks against coalition forces are justified.

    The report states that for Iraq as a whole, 45 per cent of people feel attacks are justified. In Basra, the proportion is reduced to 25 per cent.

    The report profiles those likely to carry out attacks against British and American troops as being "less than 26 years of age, more likely to want a job, more likely to have been looking for work in the last four weeks and less likely to have enough money even for their basic needs".

    Immediately after the war the coalition embarked on a campaign of reconstruction in which it hoped to improve the electricity supply and the quality of drinking water.

    That appears to have failed, with the poll showing that 71 per cent of people rarely get safe clean water, 47 per cent never have enough electricity, 70 per cent say their sewerage system rarely works and 40 per cent of southern Iraqis are unemployed.

    But Iraq's President Jalal Talabani pleaded last night for British troops to stay. "There would be chaos and perhaps civil war," he said. "We are now fighting a world war launched by terrorists against civilisation, against democracy, against progress, against all the values of humanity.

    "If British troops withdrew, the terrorists would say, 'Look, we have imposed our will on the most accomplished armed forces in the world and terror is the way to oblige the Europeans to surrender to us'."



    http://telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh...ml&sSheet=/portal/2005/10/23/ixportaltop.html
     
    #1 glynch, Oct 23, 2005
  2. giddyup

    giddyup Member

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    Gosh, sometimes you just want to let them stew in their own civil war.
     
    #2 giddyup, Oct 23, 2005
  3. mateo

    mateo Member

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    Screw em. Lets just keep the oil.
     
    #3 mateo, Oct 23, 2005
  4. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    It doesn't matter what they think or what they want. Because at the end of the day, President George W. Bush knows what's best for them. How does he know? Because God speaks to him directly on the matter every so often or so.
     
    #4 pippendagimp, Oct 23, 2005
  5. NewYorker

    NewYorker Ghost of Clutch Fans

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    Let's not forget we created this mess....and - let's not forget what happened in Afganistan after we left that civil war to brew.

    If troops left now, we'd basically be creating a new home for Al Qaeda.
     
    #5 NewYorker, Oct 23, 2005
  6. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    Huge majority of Iraqis want coalition to go

    Ned Temko, chief political correspondent
    Sunday October 23, 2005
    The Observer

    The government has been dealt an embarrassing double blow in its battle to convince the public it is beating insurgency in Iraq and the threat of terrorism at home, according to confidential reports leaked to today's newspapers.
    One claimed nearly half of all Iraqis sympathised with violent attacks against British and US coalition troops; another said that at home, Tony Blair's high-profile strategy to counter the terrorist threat was proving disjointed and ineffective.

    Downing Street, while saying it would not comment on 'allegedly leaked reports', told The Observer last night that Britain remained firm in its commitment to stay in Iraq until the elected government felt it was ready to take over security responsibilities.
    The figures on Iraqis' views about attacks on coalition troops came from a nationwide opinion survey, commissioned by the Ministry of Defence and leaked to the Sunday Telegraph

    According to the report, fewer than one in 100 respondents felt the presence of American, British and other allied troops was improving security in the country.

    Forty-five per cent countrywide were said to believe that the attacks on the troops were justified - a figure that rose to 65 per cent in the Maysan, one of the provinces policed by the British. No fewer than 82 per cent, according to the report, declared themselves 'strongly opposed' to the presence of coalition troops.

    The findings prompted the Conservative shadow defence minister, Andrew Robathan, to call for a review of Britain's role in the country.

    'I am not advocating a pullout,' he emphasised. 'But if British soldiers are putting their lives on the line for a cause which is not supported by the Iraqi people, then we have to ask the question "What are we doing there?"'

    A separate leaked report, from the Prime Minister's policy delivery unit, sharply criticised the anti-terror policy drawn up after last year's Madrid train bombings and reinforced after the attacks on the London transport system in July.

    According to the Sunday Times, the report said: 'The strategy is immature. Forward planning is disjointed or has yet to occur.' It added: 'Accountability for delivery is weak. Real-world impact is seldom measured.'
     
    #6 tigermission1, Oct 23, 2005
  7. russian88

    russian88 Member

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    What else is new?
     
    #7 russian88, Oct 23, 2005
  8. arno_ed

    arno_ed Member

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    i get the feeling this might be news to some people. I wonder how the bush supporters react to this news.
     
    #8 arno_ed, Oct 23, 2005
  9. plcmts17

    plcmts17 Member

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    I'm waiting for liltexxx's thread about how he has concrete proof that the iraqi people are for the soldiers.
     
    #9 plcmts17, Oct 23, 2005
  10. VinceCarter

    VinceCarter Member

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    that's the plan :D
     
    #10 VinceCarter, Oct 23, 2005
  11. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Once again we take an unproven article (anyone can skew a statistic) and act like its gospel.

    Why do I not believe it? Because everyone knows if we left, it would lead to civil war ... and civil war is much worse than an occupation.

    secondly, a vast majority of soldiers report that they are WELCOMED there.

    The soldiers and media report very different aspects of this war. It doesn't matter which side you support, i think i would form my opinions off of those who have been there, not media sources with their own agenda.

    Oh, and these are soldiers that i've personally spoken to, not a news article of a soldiers point of view.
     
    #11 Space Ghost, Oct 23, 2005
  12. lalala902102001

    lalala902102001 Member

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    The U.S. didn't invade Iraq to help the Iraqis.

    The U.S. invaded and occupied Iraq for the national interests of the United States of America.
     
    #12 lalala902102001, Oct 23, 2005
  13. u851662

    u851662 Member

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    Hello McFly, they are nice to us because we carry guns. We have the authority. We have the capability to get them what they need before we blew it up. We are their only hope, so face to face they are nice. Just like how people kiss their boss's azz when he comes around but talk behind his back when he leaves. Same thing... Some of you forget, alot of these folks did not ask for us to come here. We just made a bad situation worse for them. You go without water (hot water) electricty, a job. Etc and see how much you want or support your government, or people in charge who arent even from your country....
     
    #13 u851662, Oct 23, 2005
  14. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    This post is as moronic as the 1st half of your sig.

     
    #14 wnes, Oct 23, 2005
  15. u851662

    u851662 Member

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    He would rather you piss on his leg and tell him its rain, instead of the truth... :D
     
    #15 u851662, Oct 23, 2005
  16. AMS

    AMS Member

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    many soldiers are delusional. these iraqis are all nice to them on the outside to get on the good side of the soldiers and curse and slander them at home.

    how do i know this one? my boss is an ex staff sargeant from iraq... and I know of iraqis who have family back home. so ya, the opinions of a few of your soldier friends isnt same as the consensus of the iraqis.
     
    #16 AMS, Oct 23, 2005
  17. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Ok Troll. Welcome to the ignore list. Population: 1.
     
    #17 Space Ghost, Oct 23, 2005
  18. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Space Ghost, I don't blame you for getting POed at wnes, who has been badgering you about your sig, here and in the GARM. Why he's gone out of his way to do that is beyond me, but I think making "fun" of your grammar is the excuse he's using. Perhaps you could put it this way...


    "September 11, 2001
    In rememberance of all those who lost their lives and of those who survived."


    I like your sig, by the way. Idle curiosity at why wnes was being such a bore about it caused me to wonder why. He has no excuse for being such a **** about what isn't his business, in my opinion. I wouldn't like someone giving me a hard time about mine. It's a quote from The Caine Muntiny that a close friend loved, who's deceased. I won't be upset if you give me a hard time about making my suggestion, either. I'm sure I would be better served just leaving well enough alone.



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
    #18 Deckard, Oct 23, 2005
  19. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    It has nothing to do with his grammar. It's his logic that's problematic.
     
    #19 wnes, Oct 23, 2005
  20. calurker

    calurker Member

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    Now why couldn't the British or the Mexicans be such philanthropists during <i>our</i> Civil War?
     
    #20 calurker, Oct 23, 2005
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