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Neocons predicted Muslims respect a winner - well may be not

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Woofer, Jun 3, 2003.

  1. Woofer

    Woofer Member

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    But if we meant to lower the standing of the UN, Bush succeeded admirably.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7665-2003Jun3.html?nav=hptop_tb

    Global Support for U.S. Falls After Iraq War
    Bin Laden Wins Approval in Some Muslim Countries

    By Harry Dunphy
    Associated Press Writer
    Tuesday, June 3, 2003; 2:00 PM


    The war in Iraq has sent support for the United States to new lows in Muslim countries and significantly damaged the standing of the United Nations in those nations and elsewhere, according to a survey released Tuesday.

    The Pew Global Attitudes Project poll also found al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden still gets favorable marks in some Muslim countries, while British Prime Minister Tony Blair and U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan instill more confidence than President Bush in non-Muslim countries.

    Even in the United States, Blair comes out ahead of Bush.

    Asked about their confidence in world leaders to do the right thing, Palestinians ranked bin Laden first. He came in second in Jordan, Morocco and Pakistan.

    Blair was the top-rated world leader in the United States with 83 percent saying they have "a lot" or "some" confidence in him to do the right thing, though U.N. Secretary General Annan came in first among the British with 72 percent. Canadians and Australians also ranked Blair at the top of world leaders, while Annan finished first in Italy and Spain.

    In many countries with generally favorable attitudes about the United States such as Brazil, Russia, Spain, France and Germany only modest percentages have confidence in Bush. A majority expresses confidence in Bush in the United States, Britain, Canada and Australia. Bush led in Israel, with 83 percent expressing confidence in him.

    The poll was conducted April 28 to May 15 in 20 countries and among Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. Some 16,000 interviews in 31 languages were conducted. Margins of error ranged from plus or minus 3 to 4 percentage points.

    U.S. foreign policy got generally unfavorable ratings.

    Majorities in seven of the eight Muslim countries surveyed said they think their nation will be attacked by the United States. In Indonesia, Nigeria and Pakistan, more than 70 percent of those questioned had this concern.

    Even in Kuwait, where people have a generally favorable view of the United States, 53 percent voice at least some concern that the United States could someday pose a threat, the survey found.

    In a previous Pew survey, negative feelings about the United States were confined to the Middle East and Pakistan but now they have expanded to Africa and Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation. There, 83 percent had an unfavorable view of America, compared to 36 percent a year ago.

    "Dislike of the United States has really deepened and spread throughout the Muslim world," said Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center that oversaw polling.

    In another significant finding, the survey said that public confidence in the United Nations is a major victim of the war in Iraq.

    The idea that the United Nations is less relevant is shared by people in the United States and Britain as well as in nations that opposed the war, such as France and Germany.

    U.S.-French relations are another war casualty. Only 29 percent of Americans surveyed said they have very or somewhat favorable views of France, while twice as many feel negatively. French opinion on Americans ranged from 58 percent very or somewhat favorable to 42 percent somewhat unfavorable to very unfavorable.

    There also is widespread disappointment among Muslims that Iraq did not put up more of a fight against the United States and its allies. Overwhelming majorities in Morocco (93 percent), Jordan (91 percent) and Lebanon (82 percent) say they expected more resistance from the Iraqis.

    The poll was released together with a broader survey of 44 nations conducted in 2002 which covers attitudes on globalization, democratization and the role of Islam in governance and society.

    Kohut said the anti-globalization forces that have protested in America and overseas don't seem to be making inroads. He said the survey found there is "great acceptance of a connected world with most people saying trade and growing business ties are good for them and their countries."

    Among other findings: Muslims favor a prominent - in many cases expanded - role for Islam and religious leaders in the political life of their countries. Yet that opinion does not diminish Muslim support for the same civil liberties and political rights enjoyed by democracies.

    "In fact, in a number of countries," according to the survey analysis, "Muslims who support a greater role for Islam in politics place the highest regard on freedom of speech, freedom of the press and the importance of free and contested elections."
     
  2. wouldabeen23

    wouldabeen23 Member

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    This survey, by all apperances, seems to be what the U.S. could expect after the war with ragards to world opinion. Do you think policy makers at home or abroad would be very surprised? My guess is no...Either way, it isn't very encouraging.
     
  3. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    The current administration didn't give a dam about world opinion before the war, why would they care now?
     
  4. wouldabeen23

    wouldabeen23 Member

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    touche!
     
  5. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    Silly them, putting our security ahead of world opinion.
     
  6. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    Yes, and we all know what a serious threat to the USA Saddam was. He had the capacity to deliver weapons of mass destruction...to Kuwait.
     
  7. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    Tex, that argument is so ridiculous, I can't believe you advance it.

    One man with certain biological or chemicals agents could kill hundreds of people and disrupt our society. One man could cost our economy BILLIONS of dollars with the right WMD and a good plan.

    Saddam was probably the richest man in the world, with some estimates of his wealth exceeding 100 billion dollars. He could have certainly financed many such terrorists ventures.

    Use your head, son!
     
  8. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Bush is a much greater threat to our security than Saddam could ever be.
     
  9. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    LMAO McMark, that is the most moronic statement I have ever seen on ANY BBS. Good job.
     
  10. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    you're welcome

    :D
     
  11. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    Then why didn't he? He had 12+ years of hatred towards America, didn't he?

    The reason he didn't is because Gulf War I and the sanctions virually obliterated his ability to develop weapons of mass destruction. Therefore, the excuses that the Bush Administration used for going to war with Iraq were lies.

    Use your head, son!
     
  12. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    Wasn't it the Clinton admin. that was too touche? The Bush admin. is a bit more "hands off"... :rolleyes: :D

    Iraq seems to be overflowing with WMD-- in practical terms there really isn't much difference between someone with $100 million or $100 billion particularly in the middle east. I've yet to see a grain of evidence that convinces me that Iraq was any kind of threat to the US. I believe the greatest threat to the US national security at this time is johnheath. (that's a joke or is it...)
    :D
     
  13. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    this is why it's worthless to keep arguing this, in my opinion. if after this long the idea of any connection with terrorist groups and any possession of WMD or the capabilities to produce WMD is so lost on you that you would say there isn't a "grain of evidence" that Iraq was a threat...then it's worthless to keep talking about it.
     
  14. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    I suspect the Isalmic world is still in a state of "shock and awe". I am sure when that wears off, they will be better behaved.

    Remember that the neoCons can be wrong since they control the White House.
     
  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Ahh, the reclusive maniacal global multibillionaire villain...... if only austin powers were real, we wouldn't waste time arguing this.
     
  16. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Max, not taking up for KC (I'm sure he can handle himself) but you’re taking what he said out of context.

    He said that he has yet to see any credible threat to the US.

    Was Saddam a threat to the region? sure

    was he a threat to our "national security? doubtful
     
  17. wouldabeen23

    wouldabeen23 Member

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  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Again, it's not about the war, it's about the lies that were told to get us into it. IF you're sick of it, that's too bad cause it's only getting worse.
     
    #18 SamFisher, Jun 3, 2003
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2003
  19. Major

    Major Member

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    Silly them, putting our security ahead of world opinion.

    The problem is that these two are intricately linked. Poor world opinion of us makes us less secure. Did we really improve our short or long term security if substantially more of the world hates us now?
     
  20. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Did we really improve our short or long term security if substantially more of the world hates us now?

    It is more important how much the world fears us rather than hates us.
     

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