One more potential big man gone... it's time to either get serious with Dream and get him back, or start talking to Marc Jackson. We better not come out of this offseason with Kelvin Cato as our starting center, or we are in big trouble as far as the playoffs go. http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/sports/hawks/0717mohammed.html Hawks retain Mohammed with 5-year contract By JEFFREY DENBERG Atlanta Journal-Constitution Staff Writer The Hawks cleared the first of two hurdles over the weekend when they came to terms with backup center-forward Nazr Mohammed on a five-year contract. Mohammed, who accompanied Theo Ratliff and Toni Kukoc from Philadelphia in the Feb. 23 Dikembe Mutombo trade, received the middle-class exception of $4.5 million with annual raises of 12.5 percent. The deal works out to more than $28.5 million. Mohammed, 23, was a free agent because Philadelphia declined to pick up his fourth-year option last summer. He was a delightful surprise for the Hawks, averaging 12.3 points and nine rebounds in 28 games with Atlanta. He started the last 19 games. In the final nine games, he averaged 18.9 points, 12.9 rebounds and shot 52 percent from the field. Agent Michael Higgins of SFX confirmed that the deal was set, but by league rule it cannot be signed until Wednesday. "Yes," Higgins said when asked if there was agreement. He confirmed it was for five years. Now, the Hawks will work on their point guard problem, and they are believed to be offering power forward Alan Henderson in any trade. "We have choices. We can work from within, or we can go out and get somebody in a trade," team president Stan Kasten said Monday. The Hawks might use Jason Terry some at point guard again this season, but they want him to play the bulk of his minutes at shooting guard, where he enjoyed a breakthrough season, averaging 19.7 points a game. Atlanta was involved in further trade talks with Philadelphia regarding point guard Eric Snow, who played the second half of the season on a cracked ankle while the Sixers advanced to a fifth game in the finals before losing to the Lakers. Snow had six screws inserted in the ankle, and his availability for training camp is in question. Sixers general manager Billy King dismissed a report that Snow cannot play until January, but the possibility sent the Hawks scurrying. "I don't expect we're going to get something done about (point guard) anytime soon," Kasten said. General manager Pete Babcock said last month the position might not be settled until September, prior to training camp. The Hawks have a 12-man squad in Shaw's Summer League in Boston this week. Six-foot Scoonie Penn, who played in Europe last season, and Cookie Belcher of Nebraska are point guards trying to win jobs there. The Hawks also are interested in retaining point guard Matt Maloney, a free agent, who averaged 6.7 points and 2.8 assists last season. ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
Especially now that we've realized Collier still hasn't recovered from his injury. We'd have a backup starting with no backups for back up. ------------------ "I'll tell you this, the older I get, the less I trust people. It's true. It's damn true." -- gr8-1 going through some growing pains.
I told everyone Nazr wasn't going anywhere... ------------------ Squatting on old bones and excrement and rusty iron, in a white blaze of heat, a panorama of naked idiots stretches to the horizon. Complete silence-their speech centers are destroyed-except for the crackle of sparks and the popping of singed flesh as they apply electrodes up and down the spine. White smoke of burning flesh hangs in the motionless air. A group of children have tied an idiot to a post with barbed wire and built a fire between his legs and stand watching with bestial curiosity as the flames lick his thighs. His flesh jerks in the fire with insect agony.
Since when did The Cat start posting like ZRB. The Cat, we went Dec, Jan, and Feb without Dream, Cato and Collier last year, and scored the best non-playoff record in history. Dream or nothing. Just get some veteran thugs, CBA thugs, or hell, even Dench. How many big shooters with no mobility are there, who can give you 10 minutes of sound offense? We can go into next year with only Cato and Collier and word trades by Feb, and be just fine. What will become a missed opportunity is reaching this summer for best available short-ass center. Jackson looked focused only on offenses stats on a team with no chemistry. He did not help that team win AT ALL! And don't give me the "who else is there." All that means is it is hard to find a center. It DOES NOT make Jackson a winner worthy of our precious capspace. Dream or nothing. Just get some veteran shooters, CBA thugs, or Dench. Don't spend precious capspace, just because you are impatient.
Who can honestly tell me that Marc Jackson is better than Antoine Carr? Carr has two years on a lousy team (Sacramento) and puts up 10 more shots per game to score 18 and 20 without helping his team improve one iota, and then what? He gets traded for Dwayne Shintzius and basically goes back to the bench for the rest of his career. But he was a great role player. Very good. And that is all we need, to find a hungry vet on the bench. The NBA and the CBA always have 6-9" powerful bench thugs with a sweet open jumper. Marc Jackson is not that rare. He is not that special. He is a Carr-type role player at best, imo. The Cat, why should this guy be a starter, much less get starter pay for a center?
Crispee, Dream was gone from January 1-18 in that stretch, not 3 months. We went 6-6 in that time frame. I would not consider that playoff quality. Jackson brings a lot of things this team could really use in a big man. He can play physical inside, rebounds near 10 a game when starting, and he has the touch from the outside that the Rockets need to pull opposing centers out of the paint. Let me ask you this: what available centers are worthy of our cap space, in the next two years? They can be free agents, or players that possibly will be on the trading block. What viable options do you see? I really don't see that many. Of the better centers in the league, most are under contract with their teams for quite a while (Shaq, Robinson, Mutombo, Mourning, Ratliff, Davis). And the ones that may be available, like Raef Lafrentz, will cost you at least 10 million per year in a long-term contract given the scarcity of centers these days. I'd rather take a chance on Jackson at 5 mil than Lafrentz at 11. As good as Francis, Cat, Griffin, and Mo can be, I try and be realistic, and I can't see Kelvin Cato as the starting center on a very good team. ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
Desparation setting in, Cat? Maybe it's time for us to bring back Pig Miller with a lucrative, multi-year deal. ------------------ I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip that I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.
I'd rather give Pig a multi year deal than Cato. ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
Stats on a horrible team must be discounted. Antoine Carr only started two years in his career and posted 18 and 20ppg, yet never started again. Jackson has not proven he can help a team win. His stats on a lousy team are NOT rare. He is merely a thug who can hit an open jumer. A short center. He is Antoine Carr at best. Don't give me the thing about who is worthy of our capspace as an argument that Jackson IS. That is all your argument implies, imo.
I guess we're forgetting that Jason Collier is on the comeback trail. There is just too much hype surrounding Jackson. I also don't see why we have to have every single position on our roster finalized for the next 10 years by the end of this summer. Once the Rockets trade for Brad Miller our worries will be over though. ------------------ "I guess that's YOUR theory"
Man for a newbie you sure do post alot crispee! Who do you suggest we start at center, then? What's the good of hoarding cap space if you have to start Kelvin Cato? Anyway, I don't think Cat's advocating giving Jackson a max contract, just a deal making about $5 mil a year. I would pay that much to get a "thug who can hit an open jumer", if that thug can play center and those open jumpers are from 20 feet. ------------------ I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip that I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.
I though it was more. My mistake. I do definitely remember the friction with Rudy that prompted the radio call-in by Hakeem to Rudy continued to limit his role until the Knicks game. Still we have no back-up center for much longer than I stated and we had a Dream who was miscommunicating with the coach about roles from day one until the Feb Knicks game. Dream did not deliver the great defense until the Knicks, and he looked confused and lackluster on offense. We can win with 3 backup true centers versus one true center (feeling out his role, worried early about continued breathing problems so not working out like he likes too). We had only 3 frontliners for how long? Going in with 6 frontliners will improve us. Maybe not better than our team when Dream woke up against the Knicks, but we can make the playoffs with Mo, Grif, K9, Cato, Collier, and X thug for 2 positions.
Don't give me the thing about who is worthy of our capspace as an argument that Jackson IS. That is all your argument implies, imo. Your argument seems to be not to pursue Jackson because he is another Antoine Carr. I assume you come to this conclusion based on him not being a proven prospect, and not having brought many wins to Golden State (although about 3/4 of the team was hurt). These days, centers are so rare that Antonio Davis is getting 12 million per season. That's right, a double double guy with the ability to play some center has become so rare these days that it costs the max to lure one. Are you willing to pay that price? I would much rather take a gamble on someone with good talent and work ethic like Marc Jackson for 5 million than an above average proven center like Lafrentz who will cost near the max. Besides, I can't see the Rockets paying the max for a center anyway. Considering the luxury tax and the fact that the Rockets will have to give both Francis and Griffin huge deals, I doubt Les opens up his wallet like Mark Cuban and goes on a spending spree. ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
Obviously he didn't go anywhere, apparently nobody wanted him! ------------------ "Instruments are like women: After a while, you want to make love to another." - Nicolas Godin of the musical duo Air
Sam, we can sustain major minutes with NO center. We have proven that in the fact that Cato and Collier missed so many games. Dallas did. Minn did. Sac did. Phoe did. Who else? Fact is, playing against nearly 80% of the league requires no great center. I don't want to get sidetracked in an argument of free agency, since we all can go regurgitate onto a smorgasbourg of other free agent threads. My point is that we damn sure can make the playoffs without Dream or Jackson. My point is that Jackson is NOT rare. My point is that organizations who spend too much (in $ or draft picks) on reaching for best available centers are generally known as failures. btw: Where did you hear that Jackson will settle for $5m? You know, that makes less money over a 6 yr contract than a $4.5m with his current team.
btw: Where did you hear that Jackson will settle for $5m? You know, that makes less money over a 6 yr contract than a $4.5m with his current team. This is a personal assumption. The money in both deals would be very close, but I'd bet he would love to leave Golden State and get a chance to win if the money was good. Of course, if Seattle got into a bidding war with us for him, I wouldn't go much above the 5-5.5 mil per year range unless we had a suitor for Cato. ------------------ Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
Jackson is now going to call for like a 6 year contract. Playing decent ball on a bad team does not make you worth a 6 year contract. I might have gambled on Jackson with a 2-3 year deal, but Jackson is more proven/better than Nazr, so his asking price will be definitely set at least 5 years, if not 6. As for Lafrentz, the market won't be able to get him a max contract, unless it's from the team he's with (LBR), or a team stocked with cap space and loaded everywhere but center (who does that sound like?). Remember, if the average team happened to have 10 mill in cap space, who are they more likely to pursue? Carter, Pierce, and Jamison or Raef Lafrentz and Olowokandi? ------------------ "I always thought Hakeem was the better offensive player and DRob the better defender." Spurever Shaq would probably agree.
I'll have to agree with The Cat on this one. The main thing, to me, is this: Marc Jackson was once quoted as saying he would love to play with Steve and Cat. Of course, when you're bargaining for more $$$, you'd say anything; but I believed him. Why stay with Golden State? The Rockets will rebuild better and faster than GS, a team that always seems to be "rebuilding." Mo also wants to be here. So, why not follow the Oeilpere/Doc Rocket formula (a combo of old posts here). We got Eddie Griffin (unbelievable, hunh?) We can get Mo and Marc with our cap space, and Moochie, too. So let's just do it. About 5.5/6 mil apiece for the big guys. Marc, Griff, and T-Mo ensure the rebounds are taken care of. ------------------
Does anyone know if the Rockets are even pursuing Marc Jackson? NIKEstrad is right, there is know way that Raef LaFrentz will get the max next year, I'd expect him to sign a contract between 6 and 8 million per. ------------------
