1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

National Geographic: Health Care Graphic Worth More Than A Thousand Words

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by gifford1967, Jan 4, 2010.

Tags:
  1. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    4,654
    #1 gifford1967, Jan 4, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2010
    1 person likes this.
  2. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    35,986
    Likes Received:
    36,841
    I think the # of doctor visits is a little more interesting than the life expectancy (LE). LE may be overused a bit, since we have so many cultural issues affecting that as well.

    But to spend more than twice the average of everyone else, and get the least amount of physician contact per patient... that seems super dumb.
     
  3. droxford

    droxford Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2001
    Messages:
    10,598
    Likes Received:
    2,131
    What does the horizontal axis represent? .... Time?

    I mean, I see that Japan's Avg. Life Expectancy at birth increased from ~77.5 to 83.7, but did that increase over time?
     
  4. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    57,800
    Likes Received:
    41,240
    No, it doesn't, gif. Nice find!
     
  5. bnb

    bnb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Messages:
    6,992
    Likes Received:
    316
    The horizontal axis represents health care expenditure to life expectancy, with the UK as a base. Just connecting the dots -- no progression over time. It's a bit of an odd graphical representation of $, doctor visits and life expectancy.

    But, once again, it's really just highlighting the disparity in spending and comparing it to measures of its effectiveness.
     
  6. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    35,986
    Likes Received:
    36,841
    Actually, from what I can tell: there is no horizontal axis, per se. They are just linking one country's health care spending per capita to its corresponding life expectancy. An "upward slope" just shows, in theory, good outcomes per dollar spent, versus the average. A "downward slope" shows, in theory, poor outcomes per dollar spent, versus the average.

    I don't think there's any "time" involved. It's just a 2007 snapshot.
     
  7. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    4,654

    Actually, I think it's the cultural/demographic differences that get over emphasized by health care reform opponents to muddy the waters. I'm sure they account for some difference in life expectancy/per capita health cost, but it's not like all the other countries doing way better than the US, have a common culture and demographic.
     
  8. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2000
    Messages:
    27,803
    Likes Received:
    22,807
    in which other country(s) do doctors enjoy earnings significantly higher than the mean salary?

    if any posters have info on this please post it....
     
  9. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    35,986
    Likes Received:
    36,841
    As you know, I'm far, far from an opponent of reform. But to say our lack of universal health coverage is responsible for the obesity epidemic, for instance, is to risk all credibility (IMHO!)

    There are so many outcomes to look at instead of life expectancy, but I guess it's a good place to start. Cheers.
     
  10. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    4,654

    I would never make that argument, but I would be very interested in seeing any data on rates of obesity among industrialized nations. Australia, in particular, might be interesting.
     
  11. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    4,654
    #11 gifford1967, Jan 4, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2010
  12. Qball

    Qball Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2001
    Messages:
    4,151
    Likes Received:
    210
    Is it me or does the graph just tell me that Americans have more luxury and income to spend extra on healthcare. It just tells me that we spend more money on non-life threatening stuff more than other countries.
     
  13. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45,954
    Likes Received:
    28,050
    We got the bestest system in the world...that's why it costs so much per person!
     
  14. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Messages:
    8,308
    Likes Received:
    4,654

    The internet is a magical place-


    Health Statistics > Obesity (most recent) by country

    Rank Countries Amount
    # 1 United States: 30.6%
    # 2 Mexico: 24.2%
    # 3 United Kingdom: 23%
    # 4 Slovakia: 22.4%
    # 5 Greece: 21.9%
    # 6 Australia: 21.7%
    # 7 New Zealand: 20.9%
    # 8 Hungary: 18.8%
    # 9 Luxembourg: 18.4%
    # 10 Czech Republic: 14.8%
    # 11 Canada: 14.3%
    # 12 Spain: 13.1%
    # 13 Ireland: 13%
    # 14 Germany: 12.9%
    = 15 Portugal: 12.8%
    = 15 Finland: 12.8%
    # 17 Iceland: 12.4%
    # 18 Turkey: 12%
    # 19 Belgium: 11.7%
    # 20 Netherlands: 10%
    # 21 Sweden: 9.7%
    # 22 Denmark: 9.5%
    # 23 France: 9.4%
    # 24 Austria: 9.1%
    # 25 Italy: 8.5%
    # 26 Norway: 8.3%
    # 27 Switzerland: 7.7%
    = 28 Japan: 3.2%
    = 28 Korea, South: 3.2%

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity

    In a quick look for the data, it seems that Australians are also pretty alarmed by their rapidly increasing rate of obesity.
     
  15. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,688
    Likes Received:
    16,218
    That would make sense, if not for the fact that more and more people are being priced out of healthcare, indicating it's not a voluntary/luxury thing.
     
  16. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    35,986
    Likes Received:
    36,841
    And Qazi, note that the thickness of our "line" shows we spend less time with doctors than most other citizens of the world. so we literally pay more for less health care "time." Maybe our five minutes with a doctor, and our overpriced prescriptions, are just 3x better than the hours with a doctor, and properly priced prescriptions, that most people get. Um...
     
  17. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45,954
    Likes Received:
    28,050
    You're all missing the point...America has the best system in the world. People come here for treatment

    **** YEAH!
     
  18. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,804
    Likes Received:
    3,709
    to be fair our life expectancy numbers are still skewed by to be frank, less than average life expectancy of blacks and hispanics.
     
  19. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    35,072
    Likes Received:
    15,251
    I think I'd prefer a thousand words to that graph. It makes no sense and seems to imply things that it should not. The second one gifford posted makes a lot more sense.

    Even so, I'm suspicious of what the graph wants to imply, even though I'm sympathetic to the argument. Life expectancy has a lot to do with lifestyle, that is not isolated here. Also, number of doctor's visits will also vary with age. Japan, for example, has an older population than normal, so you'd expect more doctor's visits.
     
  20. Depressio

    Depressio Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,416
    Likes Received:
    366
    That's not what Glenn Beck said 2 years ago. :(

    ... but he says that now. Then again, I don't take the word of an accused rapist and murderer of children very seriously.
     

Share This Page