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Mystery Man Revealed!

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Grizzled, Mar 28, 2001.

  1. Grizzled

    Grizzled Member

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    …soon. But he, or rather they, have submitted an offer to Stern to buy the Grizz and keep them in Vancouver! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    http://www.tsn.ca/NBA/readstory.asp?Story_ID=884541

    It isn't a done deal by a long shot, but if they're entering the game at this point, ya gotta think (hope) they know what they're doing.


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  2. Mango

    Mango Member

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    Why so late on this?

    He should have stepped in when Heisley was buying the Grizz, not when Heisley is planning to move them.

    Mango

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  3. Grizzled

    Grizzled Member

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    I agree with that, but in terms of how this has been played since Heisley said he wanted to move the team, this timing may make sense. If the group got in before the relocation city was announced, they would only have been feeding the bidding war. Since the offer will certainly be lower than the other's, it would have looked bad. Now the question is, does the NBA want to allow an owner to be a profiteer, and flip a team he bought less than a year ago to another city, when there is a local group willing to buy it? The fact the offer was made to Stern is interesting too. The Heisley group has essentially no integrity left, and the fact that the Vancouver group doesn't want to deal directly with him is no surprise, but the fact that Stern would accept the bid is quite interesting.

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  4. Smokey

    Smokey Member

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    Stern is going to listen...What else does he do all day?, but he can't make Heisley sell the team. Grizzlies with Heisley in Vancouver is no good. Heisley is public enemy # 1. The deal in Memphis is too impressive to turn down for Heisley and for the NBA. I'm sure the NBA will spin this as too little too late. I think its a slam dunk that the Grizz will be in Memphis. Hornets are using Memphis to get their way, and the city of Charlotte will not lose the Hornets. Plus the Hornets owner is willing to sell the team to a local owner.

    Never give up hope, I didn't either till the Houston Oilers played their first preseason game in Memphis. They stole Houston's NFL team and now they got Vancouver's NBA team.

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  5. mrpaige

    mrpaige Member

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    That article doesn't say that Stern accepted the bid or even agreed to listen to it. It just said he received it.

    If Heisley doesn't want to sell the team, no one can make him. And Stern alone can't keep the team from moving. Stern was able to keep Bill Laurie from acquiring the team because he had the support of some powerful owners (especially Jerry Colangelo, who had been a strong supporter of Vancouver) pushing to keep the team in Vancouver.

    That same support from the ownership doesn't appear to be there this year, as the NBA gave permission for the Grizzlies to seek out a new home. The NBA appears to have lost faith in the market altogether.

    This bid for the team (if it is serious. We don't yet know that it is serious or that it is an offer in line with what the team is now worth) is too little too late at this point. The NBA is unlikely to stop a move at this point.

    And let's not forget that the NBA apparently wants Memphis in the League now. Everybody seems to be of the agreement that the NBA has been helping Memphis put together its bid since last year. Are they going to want to quash Memphis' efforts now so that they can stay in a city where the team loses significant amounts of money and where promises made last year were not kept (the view of the NBA. I know Vancouverites place blame for the lack of support at Heisley's feet, but the NBA isn't going to look at it that way).

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  6. Grizzled

    Grizzled Member

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    Originally posted by mrpaige:
    That article doesn't say that Stern accepted the bid or even agreed to listen to it. It just said he received it.

    You're right on this point. I may be getting a little ahead of myself. We'll see what happens tomorrow. But I bet the group has done their homework, and wouldn't have submitted a bit unless they knew it would get serious consideration. Every indication is that the person is a high profile local person (and there's only a few that it could be) and that they have been very calculating and careful about how they have approached this.

    If Heisley doesn't want to sell the team, no one can make him. And Stern alone can't keep the team from moving.

    Heisley can't be forced to sell the team, but if he is prevented from moving, he will effectively be forced to sell. I'm amazed at how often point is raised because it is so clearly not a factor.

    That same support from the ownership doesn't appear to be there this year, as the NBA gave permission for the Grizzlies to seek out a new home. The NBA appears to have lost faith in the market altogether.

    There is lots of conflicting information on this point. When the move was announced, Stern said he would like to keep the team in Vancouver, but, he somewhat smugly added, he really didn't think amy local person would step forward. Almost immediately there was quit a bit of interest. No one was named, but at least 2 billionaires with significant business interests in Vancouver refused to deny that they were involved. Stern looked like a fool, like he didn't know what he was talking about. Then the stories started coming out about businesses who had offered support and Heisley's people had refused to return their calls, about season's ticket holders who had not been offered renewals, about money wasted on a new practice facility when they were tied into a long term lease on another one, about training camp being held in the States instead of at home to build support for the new team, about a pathetic marketing campaign. Even considering gross mismanagement, reputable NBA people began to question the losses Heisley was reporting. Not possible they said. Maybe 25 or 30 million, tops, even considering the mismanagement. So it looks like Heisley played Stern for a fool, and just maybe Stern wasn't impressed by that.

    This bid for the team (if it is serious. We don't yet know that it is serious or that it is an offer in line with what the team is now worth) is too little too late at this point. The NBA is unlikely to stop a move at this point.

    Stern himself said, in a much later interview, that an amount much less than market value in the States would be good enough. I think it was $160M but it may have been $180M. $180M would cover Heisley after tax losses. Anything more and the league would be allowing him to profit from his broken promises to the city of Vancouver and the league. If the league really wants to put a team in Memphis, (which seems a suspect market given many of the reports, even from people from Nashville) they should put an expansion team there. The owners would profit much more from that.


    Hey! I became a member with this post. And it only took me nearly a year to do it. I must be the slowest person to 30 in the history of CC.net. Let's see, how long is is going to take me to catch Jeff … [​IMG]
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    [This message has been edited by Grizzled (edited March 28, 2001).]
     
  7. SamCassell

    SamCassell Member

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    Congrats on membership Grizzled. And good luck on keeping the team. If I remember correctly, didn't Stern step in when the Twolves were going to move to New Orleans? And part of that was locals stepping up with a late bid. Who knows? Although, I hope for your sake that the offer isn't that much lower. I wouldn't expect Vancouver to be given much of a discount if they are want to keep the team.

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  8. mrpaige

    mrpaige Member

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    The point is raised because the NBA appears unlikely to prevent a move. The NBA allowed Heisley to look in to a move. They gave him an extension to complete his research, and the NBA facilitated Memphis' bid. That doesn't sound like a League that is working on denying the Grizzlies application for a move.

    And Heisley doesn't have to sell even if the move isn't approved. Only his own personal desire to stem the losses would require a sale. It's not as if Heisley needs the cash and can't hold on another year in Vancouver if need be.

    You seem to be of the opinion that the NBA doesn't like Michael Heisley and, if given the choice between Heisley and the City of Vancouver, they'd pick Vancouver every time. I don't see that. The NBA supports its owners. Once a guy gets in the circle, he's protected. They're far likely to take Heisley's side over the side of Vancouver (a market that everybody agrees inflicts the team with significant losses). The situation is significantly different than the one last year. Bill Laurie could be kept out completely. Heisley can't be kept out because he's already in.

    This is a League that was uninterested in keeping Houston, a city significantly larger than Vancouver with an NBA history stretching back 30 years, if the owner didn't want to stay. Had Les applied for a move to Louisville after the 1999 vote failed, the League would've approved it, even if Bob McNair and Chuck Watson were sitting with their checkbooks open ready to buy the team. Houston also had a recent history of very high fan support and very high corporate support. Something that Vancouver doesn't have (whatever the excuse for it, it still works against Vancouver. The people who will be approving the move are all team owners. They are usually of the opinion that there should be significant fan support and significant corporate support regardless of what the team does. What they see is that the promises made last year weren't met. The excuses from the community, no matter how valid we think they may be, aren't likely to make any difference).

    This is a League that was unconcerned about losing San Antonio, another ABA/NBA city that has nearly 30 years of history, and San Antonio has a history of fan and corporate support and was coming off an NBA Championship. Had the arena vote not passed, that team was moving. The NBA was approving it, even if Red McCombs had been sitting there with his checkbook open ready to buy back the team.

    This League supports its owners, even when those owners are pieces of crap. I suspect that if you put your faith in the NBA to prevent this move simply because there is now may be an offer to purchase the team, you're going to be disappointed.

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    [This message has been edited by mrpaige (edited March 28, 2001).]
     
  9. kbm

    kbm Member

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    Memphis did not steal the oilers SMOKEY. Nashville did. In Fact, when the oilers played in memphis, most memphians only went to games when the steelers came to town. Our local televison station still will not carry every game the titans play, even though we are less than two hundred miles away from nashville. Bud Adams should have called the team the nashville titans.

    HERE ME SMOKEY, memphis deserves to have a professional sports franchise! And please refrain from including us with BUD "MEMPHIS SHOULD JUST BE GLAD WE DECIDED TO PLAY THEIR ONE YEAR" ADAMS

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  10. mrpaige

    mrpaige Member

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    The time for an offer to purchase the team to be made has now passed. NBA rules require that the NBA approve or disapprove the move within 120 days of the application being filed, yet they cannot completely vet and approve the ownership change before then.

    So, the NBA would be required to deny the application to move before they knew whether the new ownership was going to be allowed to take over the team. AND they'd have to hope that the city of Memphis and Michael Heisley didn't file suit against the NBA for denying the move in violation of their own relocation guidelines.

    Once that application is filed, it's really too late. The only thing that can save the Grizzlies now is if the details of the deal with Memphis somehow fall apart. The League won't prevent the move simply because there are now latecomers wishing to bid on the team.

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  11. Smokey

    Smokey Member

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    Let me correct myself, Nashville stole Houston's NFL team. I guess in the end everything works out. We now have an expansion franchise with a respectable owner, and even have the Super Bowl in 2004. Houston was very lucky. Once the NBA leaves Vancouver, only another team moving will bring basketball back to the city.

    kbm, How do you think Grizzled feels? Does Vancouver deserve to have its NBA franchise taken away from them? What makes Micheal Heisley any different from Bud Adams?

    IMO, its a done deal. The Grizz will play in Memphis next season.


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  12. Grizzled

    Grizzled Member

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    You make some sound points mrpaige, but I respectfully disagree with you on some, and optimistically disagree with you on others. We'll find out shortly which one of us has guessed this thing properly

    The point is raised because the NBA appears unlikely to prevent a move. The NBA allowed Heisley to look in to a move. They gave him an extension to complete his research, and the NBA facilitated Memphis' bid.

    … and they denied him a second extension. There were many mixed signals in this phase, I admit. Stern also publicly stated at least twice that he would like the team to stay in Van. and suggested a price that would be reasonable.

    And Heisley doesn't have to sell even if the move isn't approved. Only his own personal desire to stem the losses would require a sale. It's not as if Heisley needs the cash and can't hold on another year in Vancouver if need be.

    I think that would be an unworkable situation for both Heisley and the league. How many corportate boxes would he sell? His losses would be staggering, and if insisted on orchestrating such a farce, I don't think the league would just grant him a ticket out of town the next year. He would be making a fool out of himself and the league.

    The NBA supports its owners. Once a guy gets in the circle, he's protected. ... They're far likely to take Heisley's side over the side of Vancouver (a market that everybody agrees inflicts the team with significant losses).

    This is a League that was uninterested in keeping Houston, a city significantly larger than Vancouver with an NBA history stretching back 30 years, if the owner didn't want to stay. Had Les applied for a move to Louisville after the 1999 vote failed, the League would've approved it, even if Bob McNair and Chuck Watson were sitting with their checkbooks open ready to buy the team. Houston also had a recent history of very high fan support and very high corporate support. Something that Vancouver doesn't have (whatever the excuse for it, it still works against Vancouver. The people who will be approving the move are all team owners. They are usually of the opinion that there should be significant fan support and significant corporate support regardless of what the team does.

    That being said. The league hasn't actually moved a team in many many years. In recent cases it seems the league has allowed the owners to use the threat of a move as leverage in their bargaining with local governments.

    What they see is that the promises made last year weren't met.

    I optimistically choose not to believe this. I think to allow the team to move after what seems clearly to have happened in Vancouver this year would seriously damage the integrity of the league, and I hope the owners have enough integrity not to let it happen.

    I suspect that if you put your faith in the NBA to prevent this move simply because there is now may be an offer to purchase the team, you're going to be disappointed.

    After the roller coaster we've been on, nothing would surprise me. I wouldn't lay any money on the outcome either. But I'm cautiously optimistic. We'll find out, one way or the other, shortly (I hope).

    …thanks for the welcome SC. [​IMG]


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  13. kbm

    kbm Member

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    No one deserves to lose their team. But many cities will. Prolly in a few years the NBA will dangle a franchise again at Vancouver.

    To me, the issue is the NBA. Neither the team owners nor the NBA seem to believe that there's an INVISIBLE CAP. You can get as many FEDEX naming rights as you want, the money WILL run out eventually. I guess when the price of an NBA game is too high for anyone to afford, the NBA will sell the seating rights too. Say, a graphics company in silicon valley and let them fill the seats with an imaginary crowd. Of Course, the crowd will hold up a banner to promote the company.

    Memphis is also in for a rude awakening on this matter. It will not take many 20 win seasons before the tarnish will show. Big Time sports is a long, far cry from the nickel and dime college game.

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  14. Grizzled

    Grizzled Member

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  15. AroundTheWorld

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    For a second, I thought this was about LHutz...
     

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