Ok, my turn to propose a wild series of trades: Housten sends Mobley, Mo Taylor and Posey to Toronto Toronto sends Antonio Davis, Murray and Jefferies to Houston Pts: RB: Ass: Bks: Stl: Difference for H: -2.3 +1.7 -.9 +1 -1 + Experienced PF and promising scorer if he recovers well. Toronto now has a defensive player at SF, a Guard who can score lots of points off the bench and play the point in a pinch, and a PF who can score in the post to take the heat off of Carter. Houston Gets a PF with brawn and offensive abiltiy, a SF who can score (assuming he comes back from injury well) and a back up Forward who is basically trade bait, see below. We gain experience which we need. They lose a center but probably get better overall since Davis isn't a true center and N'diaye? is showing promise. Houston sends Maddox to the Heat The Heat send M. James to the Rockets. Diff: Push (Maddox would have played more if he fit the team better and James was undrafted) We lose a guy who doesn't blend with our locker room but has a lot of athletic ability and gain a 'point guard' who could do just enough to allow SF to move to the 2 spot if that's what we want and provide much more stable depth than Norris who we probably won't be able to move without losing talent level in a package with somebody else. Houston sends E. Griffen to the Wizards The Wiz send K. Brown to the Rockets. Pts: RB: Ass: Bk: Stl: Dif for H: -1.2 -.3 -.4 -.44 -.05 We get a tougher power forward with good potential and the Wizards weren't feelin him towards the end of the year. They get a PF who can shot the 3 and help spread the floor and also has lots of potential. We lose some stats but I think both these guys could use a change of scenery and would improve quickly in a different environment. Houston Sends Cato and Jeffries to SA SA sends Jackson and Bowen or Smith to Houston. For Houston Pts: RB: Ass: Bk: Stl: Diff Jack/bow: +12.8 -.1 +4.2 -.11 1.08 Diff Jack/Smi: +7.2 -2.6 +2.6 -1.02 +.39 This is a per game, not minute comparison so the numbers are off a bit in Cato's production. (remember, they don't have Robinson next year, and Malik Rose and Kevin Willis aren't exactly effective defenders. So Cato has more value for them if Duncan stays at PF) We get scoring and defense. SA gets the center they need to allow Duncan to continue to play PF where he gets better matchups. Steve Smith or Bowen handle the 2, Jeffries provides youth/depth at the 3 spot with Ferry, value wise we're more like to get Smith. We lose some rebounding and shot blocking, we gain scoring, assists and steals. We have this for a starting line up. Starting Stats: Pts: Rbs: Ass: Blks: Stls: Yao/Davis 13.5 8.2 1.7 1.79 .38 Davis/Brown 13.9 8.2 2.5 1.17 .43 Murray/Nachbar 16.6 5.2 2.2 .61 .99 Jackson/Smith 13 4.5 3.0 .45 1.18 Francis/James 21 6.2 6.2 .51 1.74 Starting Production: 78 32.3 15.6 4.53 4.72 We now have a tougher team defensively, we get a few players who can really shoot and our front court is finally stable. We can run an offense a lot more like the Spurs then the... whatever we run. If we switch to an offense more like that we'll finally see once and for all how good Stevie can be (see, there was a method to my madness) ;P Crazy ain't I? Discuss amongst yourselves, I'm just having fun with y'all. And get this, the salaries even match up.
SA would never trade us Bowen and Jackson for Cato. Also if the Rockets pulled that Toronto trade, I would hunt down CD and kill him. You have to get more for Mobley plus than DL Hughley's big brother and a broken down Murray. Your only trade that wasn't horrible for one of the teams was Maddox for James. The problem with that one, is no one cares who the 3rd pg is.
like I said, just having fun. These whacked out trades are just as productive as anybody else's. Besides, I noted that we'd be more like to get Smith than Bowen and noted such when I listed my team starters and production numbers. The only way this works is if its a mutli-team trade where we know we're going to be getting a SG in return and Murray can show that he's recovered. Otherwise its just me having a little fun with you, so relax.
It's good that you opened a trade thread, because I didn't want to start a whole new thread for just one trade. Here's what I was playing with today: Houston sends: Mo Taylor and Cuttino Mobley to Toronto Eddie Griffin to Milwaukee Houston gets: Gary Payton Desmond Mason Milwaukee trades: Gary Payton and Desmond Mason to Houston Milwaukee gets: Eddie Griffin Antonio Davis Toronto trades: Antonio Davis to Milwaukee Toronto gets: Maurice Taylor Cuttino Mobley Interpretation: Houston We lose talent, and lots of it. But we also get rid of a bad contract and get Gary Payton, who is a bit old, but will lead us to lots of wins (keyword: LEAD). Desmond Mason gives us the opportunity to let Posey walk, and we don't have to re-sign him if Boki pans out. Toronto They lose Antonio Davis, but they get back the last 2 FA's that they tried to sign, MoT and Mobley. They get WAY younger, way deeper, and move Carter to the 3 like they've been trying to do. I've been thinking about whether the Raptors wouldr ather have Cato over MoT, since Cato's contract is cheaper and one year shorter, and I'd say I'll make it THEIR call. Whatever they choose. Another way to do it would be to throw in jerome Williams from them and Cato from us. Milwaukee They move Cassell back to the Point, get a HUGE inside presence in Antonio Davis as well as a VERY high potential Eddie Griffin who could be GREAT in the East. They lose Desmond Mason in this deal too, but I don't think they're looking to keep him long-term anyway. Thoughts?
Here are the line-ups, with the Jerome Williams and Cato option: Ming Jerome Williams/(Veteran Minimum signing)/T-Mo Rice/Desmond Mason/Boki Steve Francis/Desmond Mason Gary Payton/Steve Francis/Moochie Norris Cato/McCoy Maurice Taylor/Micheal Bradley Vince Carter/Chris Jeffries Mobley/Mo Pete Alvin Williams Antonio Davis/Gadzuric/Haislip Eddie Griffin/Anthony Mason/Haislip Tim Thomas/Toni Kukoc Micheal Redd Sam Cassell *notes: Houston still can trade Rice for another PF, or another SF, whatever. With that team, I'd keep him unless someone offered us an amazing deal. Milwaukee is thin in the backcourt, but have a draft pick as well as Tim Thomas to play SG. They can also sign a player to small deal, a Jimmy Jackson maybe. Toronto lose some quality at C, but they improve at PF, at SF, have some loss at SG, and stay the same at PG. Overall, I think Toronto has a team that is WELL equipped for Vince Carter to carry them again. Mobley demands good defense, Mo Taylor is automatic from mid-range, Alvin Williams has always been a scoring threat, and Cato is a rebounding monster. I think they can contend if they can pickup a PJ Brown for the MLE.
Addressing the last one(meaning the first one because I started this before you added the second post) you have forgotten a few things. First if we trade Mo and Griff, I think we would be a little short at the PF position, I don't think Jason Collier would be the answer and Rice wouldn't get us very much. Second what you basically would haveis that Milwaukee traded Ray Allen for a mediocre PF/C and a project that so far has done very little. If Karl isn['t on the hotseat now he would be after doing this trade. It would also hinge on Payton re-signing. I just don't see it as remotely feasible.
My first thought is this. Who in the hell play the paint with Yao then? If we draft a guy to play the spot then we're right back where we were with EG. If we don't bring back Posey we still won't have the money for a top flight free agent PF but there aren't many we're going to get the for 4 million exception. Otherwise i'm fine with bringing in Payton and letting Franchise score a lot for a couple seasons to see if it works out. Mason doesn't have Mobley's shooting touch and isn't capable of locking down star SG's like Mobley does when he smells a challange. The deal works out well for the other teams but leaves us hurting in the post and leaves other teams free to double team Yao with impunity. I'd make the trade if I was sure i'd be able to pull in a tough PF to make teams pay when they paid too much attention to Yao. He doesn't need to draw double teams, indeed it would be hard to do with 3 stars already on the court, but he's got to be able to hit a consistent 10-15 foot jumper and do the dirty work on the boards.
ok, didn't go back to check for updates. Looks like you took the PF problem into account. I've got to agree with Castor on this one, it would be good for the rockets but the Bucks would only go that way if Payton said he wanted to play here and they were getting Cato and EG in the deal and nobody offered up anything better. GP will be a hot commodity for teams that are close but not there.
Oh no. Look at it again. Castor, I'm sorry but Antonio Davis, especiialy in the East, is NOT mediocre, and Eddie Griffin is a 20-yr old who can do WONDERS for them in the East, especially playing alongside Antonio Davis. Griffin has a small contract (rookie scale), has 2 years on it, TONS of potential, and already has the ability to rebound, block shots, play D, and hit 3's (which Milwaukee LOVES). Antonio Davis and Eddie Griffin is HARDLY what I'd calla mediocre C/PF and a project. You make it sound like they're getting Greg Ostertag and Deshawn Stevenson.
Ming/Francis/Payton is a BRILLIANT core. I honestly think Payton is the perfect player to connect the whoel team together. He's the guy who can balance Francis and Ming, put them on the same page. He can also feed off those 2 guys' attention and play some good D. Mason and JYD doing the dirty work is EXACTLY what we need. JYD is a GREAT rebounder/defender (although a bit undersized) and Mason is constantly improving, has great athletic ability and a very nice looking shot. Also, he's been commended for his defense before, and as we remember, his shot was horrible coming in, but is brilliant now.
The more I think about it the more i like it. Its really is feasable but it would depend on Gary Payton's opinion of our chances to win it all in the next two seasons. For him to want to play with us we'll need to see some front office movement, starting with Rudy and Doc has already told us that's not happening this season.
Sane...there's an edit button! I will analyze your trades happily! "Houston sends: Mo Taylor and Cuttino Mobley to Toronto Eddie Griffin to Milwaukee Houston gets: Gary Payton Desmond Mason Milwaukee trades: Gary Payton and Desmond Mason to Houston Milwaukee gets: Eddie Griffin Antonio Davis Toronto trades: Antonio Davis to Milwaukee Toronto gets: Maurice Taylor Cuttino Mobley Ming Jerome Williams/(Veteran Minimum signing)/T-Mo Rice/Desmond Mason/Boki Steve Francis/Desmond Mason Gary Payton/Steve Francis/Moochie Norris Cato/McCoy Maurice Taylor/Micheal Bradley Vince Carter/Chris Jeffries Mobley/Mo Pete Alvin Williams Antonio Davis/Gadzuric/Haislip Eddie Griffin/Anthony Mason/Haislip Tim Thomas/Toni Kukoc Micheal Redd Sam Cassell" Okay first of all...Mobley...okay...bye! Griffin..bye! Mo..cya! Gary Payton and Desmond Mason would be great. Payton/Moochie Francis/Mason Mason/Nachbar/Rice Williams/Carlos Boozer or Tyrone Hill or Charles Oakley or Alonzo Mourning/Terence Morris Yao/Williams/Mark Blount or Rasho Nesterovic or Jason Collier or Jake Voshkul. I like that....but way too many changes. It will never happen. Milwaukee...give up Payton. Well the only way the trade would happen was if Payton said that he doesn't want to return to Milwaukee. Sign and trade...I don't think they will give up Desmond Mason... Cassell/Loser Redd/Loser Thomas/Kukoc Griffin/Mason/Gadzuric Davis/Gadzuric Well their team is actually all right. They would have more inside game... Toronto is the luckiest of the deal. They get Cuttino Mobley, Maurice Taylor, AND Kelvin Cato?!?!? What the...all they give up is average players...Antonio Davis and Jerome Williams? Tell them to give us Morris Peterson, or a 1st round pick as well. Anyways.....would the salaries all work out? The trade is all right...but would never happen.
The salaries are not exact, but extremely close. You may have to throw in a Przybilla here, a T-Mo there..... I think Tornto come off well too, tbu really when you look at it, everyone improves. Every single team in the deal improves.
What if Toronto just wait and see who the get in the lotto instead of taking on a avg player like Taylor. On top of that ,Milw will get Atl lotto pick which would be no worse than 7. Once again why would they want to make a deal for a 34 yr old max player who's best yr was a contract yr and a 20 yr old pf who's game has went backwards. With all due to the trades, please come up with one that benifits both teams.
Or all 3 teams. Well the trades are all right...maybe add some draft picks. But it will never happen...so oh well!
