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My take on the Rockets, Where we are, what we need, and how we get it

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Pat, Jul 10, 2005.

  1. Pat

    Pat Member

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    First off, I am real pleased with last year. I think 50 wins and a seven game play-off series for what is basically a work in progress is fantastic. I know we have the oldest team in the league, but so many of those players are new to us. I see us as a “young” (perhaps developing is better) team because we are just now getting our system in place. I have immense respect for JVG as a coach. I think last year he tried to work with what we had, He saw that as fundamentally flawed, got a golden opportunity to get Tmac, and is now trying to rebuild us. It that sense, I think we made huge process. The new system is in place. No system works unless the players buy into it. I think the existing players have bought into it. Those players who wouldn’t buy in are gone. And now any new players who come here will step into a working system and people who believe in that system. To me that is a huge step. You have to crawl before you can run. Additionally we got rid of some horrible long-term contracts. A long MoT horrible contract for shorter Baker and Norris horrible contracts was a great move that allows for flexibility in the future. I think the work CD (or JVG) did in this area is under-appreciated.

    Next I want to run through our depth chart. But first I must preface that unlike many of you, I do not see our guards as the reason we lost to Dallas (a 58 win team I would like to point out). I think we lost because we did not know how to close out game three, not because of a 40-point slaughter in game seven. The only person on our team who has consistently been a winner is JVG. I am thinking the only players to have been past the first round are Deke and Mike James. I like Mike fine, but let’s face it; he got traded to the Pistons at the right time. He contributed, but was basically a hanger-oner (if that is a word) for the Pistons and a second stringer for us. Not exactly veteran leadership. Deke is better, but hasn’t been deep in the playoffs for five or six years now. Learning how to win takes time. I am very happy with our progress and trust JVG to impart that skill on our team.

    Back to defending the guards. During the season, when we played a team that counts on guard scoring, I expected a win. In the grand scheme of things, our guards would contain their guards. Teams that scared me were the power forward-dominated teams. I accept that we were exposed in the playoffs, but I also can accept that it was just a bad day, that got way out of hand. I may be too loyal, but I don’t break up a 50-win team for that one game. However I do acknowledge problems and hope to improve. Again, react to game three, not game seven. So, on to the depth chart…

    What we have:

    Guards: For last year and again this year I am perfectly happy with Sura, Wesley, Barry and James (and sort of TMac). Personally, I see James as the weak link here, though I am not really sure why. I guess I did not think his defense was all it was cracked up to be and his offense was streaky. I think Sura brought us a toughness that nobody else brought. When he started playing for us is when we took off. (Though I’ll admit several changes occurred around the same time – Sura starts, Barry and Wesley additions, Howard gets the starting role and the minutes). But with hindsight in my favor, I am picking Sura as the catalyst of change, we started to play well when Sura began to play full time, and we began to slip when his back went out on him. I like Wesley a lot. Streaky shooter I’ll admit, but stays between his man and the basket. There is a reason JVG played him 40 minutes a game. We all want well-rounded and consistent players at each position. But assuming that is not available, solid defense and streaky offense is my preferred step down. You put enough of those together and the defense keeps you in the game until somebody gets hot. I love Barry off the bench, and I am satisfied with James as a sub. Who knows, a year or two under JVG may turn him into a legit starter. Also, I like the addition of Head. I don’t watch college ball, but from what I hear, he is a solid pick who will buy into what we are doing. Personally, I don’t expect much of a contribution from him, or any late first round pick, in his first year. But I hope he is a building block for the future. If we have injuries (likely) he may be able to step in and fill the breech. All that being said, I love a pass first point guard, but JVG seems to be making a handful of tweeners work. Just as complete flyer, I would not give up on Ward entirely. He may have some moments left in him. Of course, I would not pay what we are paying for him, but he may step up and surprise us. Health for him, as it is for our other starting guards, will be a critical issue.

    Forwards: I think we need some work here. TMac is just a dream come true. What a trade that was. But he has no back up. I like Bowen and Padgett for their hustle and effort, but let’s face it; those are one-dimensional players who should be deep on the bench. If those guys have to play significant minutes, we are in trouble. Howard I think did a much better job for us than I realize as his loss clearly hurt us. But my prejudice is to a POWER forward. I like big bangers who can rebound and keep their big men out of the paint. I also feel our starting power forward should be our back up center. It brings continuity. To me, Otis Thorpe was perfect. He was not flashy, but kept a crop of really good power forwards in check, could put up twenty if needed, and crashed the boards. All that being said, if Howard is our back up forward, we are really strong at that position. I can live with him as starter, but would be thrilled to see him as a sub.

    Center: I am a Yao Ming fan, but he still makes me nervous. I think he has come along way, and I love how JVG uses him. On the other hand, stupid fouls, stamina, soft and Rick Smits are all words that haunt me. But obviously Yao Ming is our center, and I am OK with that. It may just be that I want too much too fast. In fact, in spite of my whining, I am very satisfied with Yao Ming. And Deke is just a wet dream. He has to be the best back up center in the league. In fact Walton backing up Parish on the about 86 Celts is the only competition as a back up center that I can think of in my lifetime. I am really happy with our center position.

    What we need:

    Well in spite of my gushing about our depth chart, we pretty much need help at every position. In spite of my love for the guards, they are old. They were fine last year, and may be OK this year, but certainly not much more than that. Sura needs to be coming off of the bench due to his age and injury history. He can still make us gritty, but if he does it for 35 minutes a game, he won’t be able to give it to us for much longer. Wesley also is on his last legs. JVG had to play him about 40 minutes a game because there was nobody else who could give us what he gave us. I love both of those guys, but time is clearly limited for both. James and Head may be their replacements, but they have to prove themselves before I embrace that as a permanent solution. Forwards I pretty much addressed above, need a back up SF and a starting PF/backup C. And why a back up C, because Deke is an old man. He was everything I could ever hope for, but like many in our rotation, he is on the down side of his career. One more year is plausible; two has to be pushing it. Any of the three discussed could easily have an injury. Also we have to ask less of Tmac. Bringing the ball up, initiating the offense, being the offense and guarding the four is just too much. A better and more reliable supporting cast will make TMac that much better.

    How do we fix this:

    We have three tools to work with, the draft, trades and free agents. Let’s take them one at a time.

    The draft. As stated earlier, I am optimistic about Head. But in the grand scheme of things, I see late first round draft picks as very hit and miss. If we get one solid rotation player out of five picks, I’ll be happy. I know a lot of you give more value to picks than I do, but considering where I expect to be drafting from I just can’t see counting on that as a solution. Considering our wide range of needs, we have to go for best player available. We can not draft for position until we have our entire rotation is close to set with good young players.

    Trades. In spite of the trades the Rockets made last year, you have to give to get. And we just don’t have much to give. Assuming Tmac and Yao Ming are staying, nobody else has real value. Maybe James has some value, but if I were the GM of another team, I would not give up a starter for James. And I would not give up much for old men like Sura, Wesley, and Deke. Ditto for the younger but limited Padgett and Bowen. Baker, Ward, Mooch and Spoon have the type of contracts you have to pay people to take. Again, GREAT job of dumping our long contracts last year. Expiring contracts are useful, but nobody is going to trade a championship quality role player for expiring contracts. I keep reading Sura/Wesley/James (pick two) plus expiring contracts for_________. But again, if I were another team's GM, I would not give up much for that package. Would you? We could be in the right place at the right time and use expiring contracts to facilitate a three way, or find another player who says “trade me to Houston or I am walking”, but again, I wouldn’t bet the farm on this happening. Every team has bad contracts, and a lot of them are expiring every year. So who do we have to trade? Well nobody. Consequentially I do not see this as a viable avenue either.

    Free agents. At last, something to work with. MLE and little LE are our main tools. Each year we can add one or two players. And here, unlike drafts, we can and should go for position. This is how we will have to build the team, one player a year. Maybe two if we get a good draft pick or the junior exemption plays out. The MLE is the league average salary, so we should be able to add an average player each year. Above average Tmac and Yao Ming plus six or seven average rotation players should do it. Additionally, the MLE can be a source of trade bait. Sign a player to MLE one year, then trade him a year or two later. I see the MLE as our major tool to improvement and I see us being a major player in the MLE market every year. Especially if we are the destination team we think we are. We have a good chance to get the cream of the MLE crop. Some of you say that Les is cheap, but I disagree. I think he will pay if it is what we need. I don’t think he will throw big bucks just because. For example, I don’t think he will go into luxury tax territory for a 40-win team. But I think he will, without hesitation, for a contending team. I think he has been a very good owner (though I still prefer the Summit to the Toyota Center).

    Here is how I see the annual progress from a bad team to a championship contender.
    First you stop sucking. We never seemed to be that bad.
    Second you contend for the playoffs. Check, 2003
    Third year, you make the playoffs, but are first round fodder. Check, 2004
    Fourth year you challenge in the playoffs, but are overmatched in the end. Check , 2005
    Then win in the first round, but get knocked out in the second. I’m looking forward to 2006.
    Second round winner.
    Once you start winning in the second round, you are in the conference finals and anything can happen from there. Great teams become champions; good teams will wait for next year.

    So to sum up my rambling. We have a legitimate 50-win team. We will get better one player a year, mostly through free agency. We should be competing for the championship in about three years. In spite of our obvious age, we have a young team (core). It will be a great ride, enjoy it.

    As a whole, I enjoy your opinions. This is mine. If you read this far, thanks for letting me prattle. I can’t explain it, but I feel good for having done it. Comments on how you think we will build our team are appreciated.
     
  2. CriscoKidd

    CriscoKidd Member

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    I pretty much agree with your thoughts, though I do have higher hopes of unloading the expiring contracts for someone of value near the deadline. While it's true that nothing may come of the contracts, I'm a lil more optimistic than I usually am. With LTax looming, and some teams in heavy spend mode, there are bound to be some cap straped struggling teams willing to start over and unload some talent and $$$ near the deadline.

    Hell, I'm even a lil more excited about Head than you are. :cool:
     
  3. gucci888

    gucci888 Member

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    I think we'll know a lot more when we hear from Swift tomorrow.
     
  4. tmac4prez

    tmac4prez Member

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    pray to god at the deadline this new luxury tax lands someone in our laps...
     
  5. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Member

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    My quicks thoughts:

    First I assume Deke and Barry come back as qualifying free agents (we don't have to use other exemptions to pay them more than the vet min)--this seems like nobrainers.

    I am not as "down" on our guards as many others, and see it mostly like you do. We had to spread our guards thin versus Dallas b/c we had to play Tmac a lot at the 4 spot. If we have a healthy Sura, or Head can give us anything, we are in a much better position with guard play (Sura, Wesley, James, Barry and Head) assuming Tmac never has to play the 4. Yes I still look to improve--maybe a bigger athletic swingman via the LLE (even if this guy is offensively challenged) and of course always look for advantagous sign and trade, but I see no need to make a panic move. Our guard play looks a lot better from where we were most of last year.

    As far as James, remember he only cost 2 late second rounders and has a modest contract. I think he delievered what was expected, he never should be expected to be a 30-35 minute starter, now or down the line. He is a solid back-up, or servicable but weak starter, no more, no less. I like him as a excellent back-up on this team (brings energy and effort on both ends, even if he does get out of control at time). Further, I think Detroit did end us missing him quite a lot, certainly Arroyo could not duplicate what he brought to them as a back-up and Billips may have just worn down in the end. Still if a better offer comes around, it is fine to trade him. James could be of particular value for a team looking for a real solid back-up for a real good price. Not major value, but some value. Wesley also has value as a guy that give you some play next year in the 2 guard and an expiring contract. Like James, not a lot of value, but some value, particulalry to the right team. Like James, if Wesley is needed to acquire a younger or better player, by all means trade him.

    I do see a MUST to bring in a PF. Either Swift (1st choice), Walker (2nd) or Marshall (3rd) to pretty much split the PF duty with JH. I think Swift is the most complementary and obviously youngest, but any of these 3 makes the whole roster much better. Get a player like this plus if Head gives us anything, I feel confident we are a top 5 team if we are relatively healthy. That gives us a shot a title, a team 25 or 26 other NBA teams wuld love to have, got to be excited with that.
     
  6. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Member

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    Compliments on a well-thought-out reply.

    If I disagree anywhere, it's here: I have faith in those expiring contracts. Alone, they might not net us anyone great. Throw in a couple of first-rounders.

    Let's face it: as long as T-Mac and Yao are healthy, we'll only have late-first-rounders, But if we yield them to a team that wants to rebuild (thus having traded us the veteran shooting guard or power forward we need), they could come in handy: let's say it's a team with next year's #7 pick, and they want to move up; they offer their #7 and the #25 they got from us to pick 2nd or 3rd. That sort of thing.
     
  7. Shark44

    Shark44 71er
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    Nice assessment. I too like our guards, if not for their individual talents, but how well they played together on the court. Picking up a PF is key, but if Swift is unattainable, we can survive. Did u intentionally not mention Badianne (sp) or PG (SV?) because you don't see them contributing this year?
     
  8. Pat

    Pat Member

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    It was not intentional, but I do not see Badiane in the NBA ever. I think the jump from minor euro-league role player to championship rotation is just too wide. Hope I am wrong.

    Span, I'm not sure what to think. I think he has NBA talent, but not sure at waht level. Does he want to be a big fish in a small pond, and be well paid I might add. Or does he give that up to be on the Rockets bench and see if he can move up? I assume all elite athletes want to compete at the highest level, but since he is not playing in our summer league I don't know what to think.
     
  9. ACL1

    ACL1 Member

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    i do not see much change this off season. since they hands are tight with a few really bad contracts. maybe next year when some of these contracts expire they spend their money wisely and bring in two very good role players, a mean , bangingt power forward and a good big defensive shooting guard. that is when we really gonna see an improvement. so this season i am going to sit back and hope they don't implode.
     
  10. krocket

    krocket Member

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    Pat: Kudos on a well developed analysis of the the Rockets. I am not sure that I agree 100% with your position, but you defined it well. I am not sure that I am willing to wait several years while we use our MLE to shore up the team. West & Ainge are smart enough to get something rather than nothing for either Swift or Walker so they will do a S&T to someone IMO. I think we will get one or the other. Each brings a different set of skills to the table. I lean to AW, but Swift would work.

    Then we have the MLE and LLE. I know that JVG likes vets, but with two Max contracts I believe we will have to build through youth. If they have already proven themselves as vets we can't afford them. I like DerMarr Johnson. I think DJ would come for a piece of the MLE, but I doubt he would be interested in the LLE (reserved for fill-in veterans). There are others of course, too many to itemize. We could use the rest of the MLE to get another player depending on who we used in our S&T.

    BTW we have several small TE's, I'm not smart enough to figure out how to use them to best advantage.

    I think Badiane will come to us eventually. I have followed hiim as best I could for 2 years. I would like to see him come here this year. He may end-up being our back-up center instead of our PF, but he is a 6-11 athletic freak with a non-stop motor, and a heap of desire to be in the NBA. V-Span, I think is playing 'cat and mouse' with the Rox trying to pry a starting guarantee out of them. Still think he'll be here though.
     
  11. declan32001

    declan32001 Member

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    Well done, Pat. Regarding Head I truly believe CD and JVG think he will contribute this year because of our dicey situation with our guards (age/injury, speed).

    His college career was skewed because he played in essentially a 3-guard offense where he was 3rd banana, but the guy flat out hustles. He's strong and quick. He has a good spot-up j, but can penetrate and finish (or dish).

    People are concerned about his size, but look at what Wesley was able to do last year defensively (until very late in the season) and if nothing else this guy will pester guards all day defensively. I think that's what JVG expects of him off the bench and I think Head is capable of that now because the guy never stops.

    from Pat:
    I have to admit I'm confused about the Spanoulis situation. Ok, the kid's banged up and he's getting offers in Europe, whan CD said "so we're not going to have a chance to look at him" did he mean the summer league or in camp either?

    Can anyone show me the thread where this was discussed? I haven't been able to find it.
     
  12. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Member

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    I agree with the 1st part 100%, I think our whole offseason is largely contingent on landing Swift or Walker. Swift via MLE (I doubt Memphis would trade him to us) or Walker via sign and trade. I lean toward Swift, but am OK with Walker. The crop of PFs next year looks cruddy, we should shore up the spot for a couple years right now, either guy does this.

    They are not very useful. The main way they could be used as an asset is a vehicle for taking on a truly hopeless mid/late 1st round draft pick, or maybe vet min player who is injured or otherwise similarly worthless (although it is possibly you don't even need a TE to trade a player like this). Free up about 1 mil and a roster spot from another team. Might be a potential trading partner where this is handy, doubtfull though.

    Also...

    Badiane is a very long shot to ever contribute to the NBA. I have not given up on him, but the odds have always been way down and are still way down.

    Looks to VS is not going to contribute next year, if the Rockets thought he was ready and they needed him he would be here now getting used to American ball. Next year is probably the critical year for whether he comes to the NBA or not. Anyone's guess.

    Head has much better chance to contribute this year and in the future than these two.
     
  13. Bob

    Bob Member

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    Thanks Pat. I agree with most of what you have said.

    One of the other considerations is the overall player rotation. Typically most coachs try to use an eight man rotation. Especially when you get to the playoffs. In order to do that we need some players who can fill multiple positions. For example, Robert Horry used to play at the 3 and 4. Kevin Willis would play the 4 and 5. Most importantly we need players who can play defensively at more than one position. Currently T-Mac is the only player who I legitimately can play at more than one position.

    When CD had said he was looking for athleticism I was hoping he was going after someone to play the 2-3 or 3-4.
     
  14. Jerry36

    Jerry36 Member

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    I liked our guards too, but to go deep in the playoffs or having any championship hopes. The Rockets must find a guard that can create his own shot. As you advance deep in the playoffs defenses get tough and creativity is a must. When Dallas figured the Rockets out, all they did was guard the 3 point shot because they knew our guard couldn't create their own shots. MJ could create, but his best asset is spot up shooting.
     
  15. Pat

    Pat Member

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    Bob, I agree. I have always thought the perfect rotation was three deep.

    A point guard who offers a change of pace from the starter. Usually calm down, run plays and don't make mistakes.

    A 2/3 swing player. May be alock down defensive one on one stopper. Try to shut down their hot shooter.

    And a big who covers PF and C. That is part of the reason I like a PF who can double for back up center.
     

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