I haven't heard this said by anybody yet...so in my own "special" way, it's original. Whatever that means! But in connecting the dots between Al Qaeda and Iraq...what if it's less direct. Presumptions: 1. 9/11 and Al Qaeda's hatred for America comes largely from our presence in Saudi Arabia...we're on their sacred land as infidels. We know OBL has said this countless times. 2. One of the primary reasons we had troops in Saudi Arabia was at the request of the Saudi government...to provide protection from Saddam and Iraq after the Gulf War. So..... By wiping out Saddam, we have a reason to pull out of Saudi without losing face...without appearing weak...through conquering the threat which proved to be a destabilizing force in the region. Our troops are already starting to pull out of Saudi, right? So this serves to diminish the reasons for 9/11. It's loose, admittedly. Play with it a bit and see if it makes any sense to you. To detonate any political defense of the administration, let me say I've never heard the administration use this as a rationale for Iraqi action...so it may very well be an unintended consequence. But I'm not so sure that's really the case.
I think it was absolutely a factor, though there are holy grounds in Iraq too...so not sure how much it undermines the Al-queda doctrine. I think it is just hatred, and they will find a reason to hate us no matter where our troops are stationed. DD
did treeman say this earlier?? i didn't realize that! i certainly don't pretend that i am the only one who has come up with this. i just haven't heard it said before!
I think that is one of the excuses that these idiots use, that we "defile" their little holy land. I don't think it would make much difference withdrawing from Saudi like we are doing right now. Their main hatred of us comes from their jealousy of our wealth and our lifestyle. Also, they believe (I don't buy this religion of peace bullhocky that Bush always talks about) that if you're not a Muslim, you should either convert.......or die. Theirs is a direct attack on our civilization, trying to replace our values with theirs.
there are some muslims like that...unfortunately far too many right now. but i don't think it's fair to say the entire religion is that way. i agree that it is a battle of fundamentalist theocracy vs. western civilization. at least on some conceptual level. having said that...OBL never targetted america before the gulf war, as best i can tell. being in saudi and on holy land really pissed them off. so let's get the hell off now that we've neutralized the threat to saudi.
This is absurd. Let's play with this statement in another context: The main reason the prolifer killed the abortion doctor was because he was jealous of the doctor's wealth Oops... the statement is still stupid. However, I've inserted a white character rather than a brown character... so perhaps you can rationalize the motives of the character a bit more easily.
It should make perfect sense, pull out of Saudi Arabia, help start a Palestinian state, then bam, no more reason to hate us. But, irrationality is part of extremism. Somebody said it, they will find another excuse to hate us. Of course, in the ME, that excuse will be Iraq. We need to bring stability to Iraq soon. Right now, it's not looking very stable. I imagine, even if we find Saddam, there will still be guerillas fighting us on a daily basis.
Achebe, That does not work as a logical hypothesis. You are too caught up in white and brown dude. He is talking about WHOLE countries of people, or WHOLE religions of people being against our way of life, and he is right. Think of it this way......If your parents teach you that America is evil, and the schools teach you that America is evil, and television teaches you that America is evil, what choice does a kid have but to grow up thinking we are evil? They are programmed as such. The problem is that we have not been active enough in that region and need to help them out more so that they can see that we are not all against the Middle East muslims. Also, our support of Israel is huge in their thinking. A lot of them think that Israel is pure evil, and us supporting them makes us evil as well. Education is the key here....we need to get over there and educate the next generation of kids so that they can grow up without that hatred. It has worked in Russia, it can work over there. DD
There's nothing wrong with that statement. They are jealous of our wealth while they live in squalor, their nation's wealth being sucked up by an elite few. The funny thing about it is that one of their favorite leaders, OBL, is part of that elite. I don't think it's the main reason they want us dead, but it's one of the reasons.
Jealous of our wealth?! That's silly. They despise our decadence. They're not jealous of it. I suppose there are some who are envious. I just don't see jealousy being a factor in their hatred for us.
Trust me, if they had the opportunity to have what we have, they would enjoy it immensely. It is jealousy, both our wealth and our lifestyle, which they could not get away with but we can.
I don't think Saudi Arabia is poor. I think most of the 9-11 hijackers were from middle class families.
He was gettin' some of it before then ... Truth be told its a huge combination of factors: US opposition to radical Islamic regimes, which it considers both destabilizing and anti-Western. US support of authoritarian regimes that repress anti-Western, or in some cases Western movements. Jealousy of the US position as the dominant power in the world. There is a plethora of research and literature dealing with the emasculated Arab, and how there is resentment over our position. After all, Arabs should be leading the world, not Westerners. You see much of this come out in pro-Arab sentiment when they speak of how Islam was the first to 'X great thing.' Misinformation from regimes in the area. Plenty of the regimes are happy to give anti-americanism to their populations to vent their rage, rather than having it focus on their own leadership. Israeli conflict. Really I find this one the most amusing, since the Arabs treated the Palestinians like crap themselves, and now want to wage 'holy war' in their name. But it is reality that they resent US aid to Israel and therefore hold us in less than high esteem.
I think the big one is US support of authoritarian regimes. (By the way, in Saudi Arabia, the only place where you are allowed to speak against the government is in the Mosque). US troops do not put forth a positive image in Saudi Arabia. There they are seen as a defense to the govt that the people hate...I think it is perfectly reasonable for Arabs to not have a high opinion of the US. I would feel the same way. Also, jealosy has nothing to do with it. I think it is an ethnocentric and egotistical view of the world to think that it does. Not everybody wants to be the US. Friends of mine from Europe thouoght the US was nothing but the Jerry Springer show...
how do you square that with the fact Al Qaeda is supported by those authoritarian regimes? particularly the Taliban in Afghanistan...and that OBL's model government is very much an authoritarian theocracy.
