I never do this kind of thing, but I thought I'd come up with a near perfect trade for 3 teams ( 2 of them mine) and wanted to share it. If you just hate trade proposals, I made it clear in my headline, so you've not wasted time by clicking on here. Houston trades: SG Cuttino Mobley (16.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.2 apg in 40.5 minutes) C Kelvin Cato (6.5 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 0.8 apg in 30.5 minutes), future 1st pick Houston receives: PG Jamal Crawford (14.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.0 apg in 29.9 minutes) SF Lamond Murray (9.1 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 1.4 apg in 22.0 minutes) PF Antonio Davis (8.0 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 35.0 minutes) Change in team outlook: +8.9 ppg, +2.5 rpg, and +3.4 apg. Chicago trades: PG Jamal Crawford (14.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.0 apg in 29.9 minutes) PF Marcus Fizer (6.0 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.3 apg in 10.0 minutes) SF Jalen Rose (13.4 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 3.7 apg in 33.3 minutes) Chicago receives: SG Cuttino Mobley (16.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.2 apg in 13 games) SF Morris Peterson (6.5 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 1.0 apg in 13 games) PF Jerome Williams (5.5 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 0.7 apg in 13 games) PF Jerome Moiso (0.3 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.1 apg in 7 games) PF Michael Bradley (0.3 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.1 apg in 7 games) Change in team outlook: -5.4 ppg, +7.6 rpg, and -4.0 apg. Toronto trades: SF Morris Peterson (6.5 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.1 minutes) SF Lamond Murray (9.1 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 1.4 apg in 22.0 minutes) PF Jerome Williams (5.5 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 0.7 apg in 28.5 minutes) PF Antonio Davis (8.0 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 35.0 minutes) PF Jerome Moiso (0.3 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.1 apg in 5.3 minutes) PF Michael Bradley (0.3 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.1 apg in 5.3 minutes) Toronto receives: C Kelvin Cato (6.5 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 0.8 apg in 13 games) PF Marcus Fizer (6.0 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.3 apg in 8 games) SF Jalen Rose (13.4 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 3.7 apg in 15 games) , future Houston 1st pick Change in team outlook: -3.5 ppg, -10.1 rpg, and +0.6 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Houston, Chicago, and Toronto being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Houston, Chicago, and Toronto had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out unless trade exceptions were used for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. I actually thinks that this works for all the teams involved. On papaer Toronto comes off the worst ( Change in team outlook: -3.5 ppg, -10.1 rpg, and +0.6 apg.) but they get a pretty good EC center in Cato, a 2nd scorer in Rose, and Fizer as a solid back up to Bosh. The future pick help even it a tad. Houston does the best on paper ( +8.9 ppg, +2.5 rpg, and +3.4 apg. ), getting a soldi starting pf/complement to Yao, the ideal pg to shoft Steve to the 2, and a 6th man scorer coming off the bench. To balance that out they take on a heavy contract in Davis, but also move one in Cato, and give up a future 1st. Chicago comes of a little towards the middle, maybe a bit down, -5.4 ppg, +7.6 rpg, and -4.0 apg. ) but they lose a bad contract in Rose and gain a bunch of managable to good contracts in return, which is exactly what they're trying to do, and many of the players they're getting ( Mobley, Williams and Peterson) are hardly bums. I think it's a seriously even trade, maybe Chicago thrwos in a 1 to Toronto as well,I don;t know. Certainly it's an ideal trade from Houston's POV, and those who will moan about AD's contract, you've gotta give up something to get something. Our lineup would then be; C) Yao, ( Davis really) bodies... PF) Davis, Taylor SF) Jackson, Murray, Griffin PG) Crawford, Norris SG) Francis, Pike It solidifies and clarifies roles. AD does what Cato does, lous can hit the 15 footer so Yao can't be crowded. Crawford is the perfect guy to play pg on offense and guard sgs on defense so Steve can be set free to score. Murray is a great 6th man scorer coming off the bench on a team with an inside presence. But more than that, I think all the teams involved come off with what they want. What do you guys think?
Not bad. I too would like to see Steve move to the 2 and it would also be nice for him to get a wake up call and warning that if he does not play IN JVGs system, he will be shipped.
It's not the worst trade ever proposed here, but I don't really want Davis, his contract and his below .400 fg %. Not surprisingly, I think Toronto comes out best in this one. They trade a bunch of crap and bad contracts and get Rose, Fizer and Cato. The problem with this trade is that Crawford is a perennial malcontent and that he will want a huge contract after this season. Couple that with Davis' huge contract, age and decline in skills and that makes the deal expensive and bad for the Rockets.
My issue w/ this trade would is that A. Davis is not a long term answer. What happens a couple years down the road when he retires? A. Davis an upgrade from Cato, but not at that cost. If we were an A. Davis away from going deep into the playoffs, I'd say let's go with it. I think a PG w/ some bball IQ can help alleviate some of the crowding that Yao experiences. As for Murray backing up at the 3, and filling some minutes at the 2, that wouldn't be a bad pickup. He's an additional shooter that we can use off the bench. Hmmm, as for Crawford over Mobley? As much as I'm not a fan of Mobley, I wouldn't take Crawford over him. Mobley is more mature, and I'm convinced that under JVG, he'll be what he needs the team needs him to be. Lastly, correct me if I'm wrong, but Crawford isn't very commited to D.
MacBeth: With all due respect, this sounds too much like change for the sake of change. Crawford has potential but is not really "proven" and he wants a huge contract next year. Antonio Davis is getting loooong in the tooth, and I have never been a fan of Lamond Murray. Lamond has the tools but never has done anythhing for any team for which he has played (lack of heart?). I would prefer to see Mobley as the sixth man, and Cato moved back to backup center. We do need to shift Steve Francis to SG so a true, tall point guard is needed. But I just can't see this trade helping in the short or long term.
Toronto: Change in team outlook: -3.5 ppg, -10.1 rpg, and +0.6 apg. And Rose has a bigger contract that Davis, which is why Chicago wants to move him. I agree that it would be ideal if we could get better, younger, and cheaper while addressing all of our needs ( legit pf, bigger pg, etc.) I just think that in reality you give some and get some.
Your logic is impressive. I applied it to the following trade: Houston trades: SF Bostjan Nachbar (4.1 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 1.0 apg in 15.1 minutes) SF Eric Piatkowski (5.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 11.0 minutes) PG Moochie Norris (3.1 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 2.5 apg in 15.5 minutes) SG Cuttino Mobley (16.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.2 apg in 40.5 minutes) C Kelvin Cato (6.5 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 0.8 apg in 30.5 minutes) PF Maurice Taylor (10.9 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.7 apg in 22.9 minutes) Houston receives: SF Kevin Garnett (22.9 ppg, 13.4 rpg, 4.4 apg in 38.9 minutes) Change in team outlook: -23.1 ppg, -6.5 rpg, and -3.8 apg. Minnesota trades: SF Kevin Garnett (22.9 ppg, 13.4 rpg, 4.4 apg in 38.9 minutes) Minnesota receives: SF Bostjan Nachbar (4.1 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 1.0 apg in 13 games) SF Eric Piatkowski (5.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.0 apg in 1 games) PG Moochie Norris (3.1 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 2.5 apg in 13 games) SG Cuttino Mobley (16.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.2 apg in 13 games) C Kelvin Cato (6.5 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 0.8 apg in 13 games) PF Maurice Taylor (10.9 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.7 apg in 7 games) Change in team outlook: +23.1 ppg, +6.5 rpg, and +3.8 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED ------------ I'm waiting for Minnesota to come knocking on our door any second now.
An exact parallel. sigh. Toronto takes on a bad contract in Rose, a questionable contract in Cato, and neither gaines one of the best players in the league, nor moves one. The proposed trade for Rose minues AD and Murray was already discussed, so essentially you are saying AD and Murray is not worth Cato and Fizer. I donlt know about that. I honestly think that his is a fair deal all around.
Just giving you a hard time, as usual . I commend you for your patience. Anyway, Rose is a player who, despite all negative aspects, still has many years left and who has serious skills. The same cannot be said anymore about Davis. I think that trade was lopsided to begin with. Not sure if that was the reason it never materialized. I still think Toronto comes out much better in this one than the two other teams. And, as I said, it is a bad trade for Houston because of Davis' diminishing skill, huge contract and the fact that Crawford will want a huge contract. We would end up spending a lot more money than we are spending now for a potential downgrade at the PF/C position from Cato to Davis and a very questionable upgrade at the guard position from Mobley to Crawford, while messing up whatever team chemistry we might have. Crawford wants something like 8 million per year starting, which would come out to almost double of what Mobley is making. It's not worth it.
Mac Beth: Please stick to your regular pontiffications.Keep doing what you are good at!! Trade not accepted the players you are trading away are much better than the ones we would be getting. Davis is well past it, while Calvin Cato has not reached his peak yet. [best back up center in the NBA].
I agree with SJC, in that this trade favors Toronto. SJC's example showed how the combined stats can be skewed with multiple players. Toronto is trading 6 players, receiving 3-even with that disparity, the rebounding difference might be hard to compensate for, you don't think 3 CBA scrubs could combine for 3.5 ppg? And they're already ahead in assists. Plus they're getting a #1 from us. Rose will pretty assuredly perform in his contract, unlike Davis. But beyond Davis, Toronto is also moving 2 other contracts: Jerome Williams (4 years left!) and Lamond Murray (2 years left). Toronto gets: the only legit center, the best scorer, and the only real talent with long term future they give up is Peterson (up for an extension) and Bradley (who's shown much less than even Boki), compensated by acquiring Fizer and an additional #1. No doubt they come out on top. As for Houston, here's what (I think) SJC was trying to point out- we're trading 2 players and receiving 3. (Not to mention giving up another future 1st, bad idea). If you throw away Murray (and he won't get PT over Pike or Jackson, and maybe not Boki), all of a sudden the +column for both points and rebounds disappears. In a more simple world, I'd think about moving Mobley for Crawford+Fizer...relieve some of the ball handling/distributing for Steve, and perhaps see what Fizer could do next to Yao.
Want to move up in the world? Try something bold. Try to come up with something decent for Caron Butler. The Butler/Jones or Butler/Grant packs are rumored to be available. Yeah, I'd ship Francis there if we got a new young 3 back to play with Yao.
I'd rather get Crawford...can Butler shoot? Can he make an open 3? He looked horrible against the Rockets...and why do the Heat want to trade him? I didn't love your trade..but it's not bad. It's quite fair..lots of players involved. I like Antonio Davis but I'd rather get Bosh. I wish!
In terms of talent/money, the trade looks good. However, a efw things to consider: 1) Sure we have to give up something to get something, but we may not HAVE the luxury of takign on Antonio Davis. Luxury tax is not an option, whether we think it should be or not, and Antonio Davis would very likely send us into luxury tax territory. It's also important to note that this will be the last trade for Antonio - no one will take him in trade after this trade goes down. His contract runs 4 more years I believe, and almost MAXED out. 2) Skiles is taking over as coach of the Bulls, so I'd have to believe that NO ONE is being traded for a while. The players were unhappy with the coach - and now Cartwright's gone, so they're going to play better, and their value will undoubtedly shoot back up. All in all, I'd do it if we could ditch Moochie's contract somewhere there, because we'd need some relief after taking on Antonio's contract. If Cartwright was still the coach, I believe this would be a very reasonable deal too. Personally, if we're trading Cato and Mobley, I'm more than sure we can get a betetr deal somewhere else. Cato would be one of the top C's in the East, and Mobley is Mobley. The Pacers would die to get Cato and Mobley in the same deal, and they have Harrington, Tinsley, Bender, and Pollard to offer. A 3-way deal is another option as well.
MacBeth -- possibly the most logical trade I've seen on this board yet. A three teamer no less. I agree this trade won't hurt the Rockets and might even help us. Antonio Davis is a pretty good, hardnosed player. Crawford is OK too... we won't be improved in the PG department, only the fact that Steve's skills will be better utilized at the 2. I think the reason why it won't work though is that Chicago would not benefit from a Mobley. Jalen Rose is a better player than Mobley. People are going to disagree but Rose is bigger, craftier, and can pass better. At some point there won't be enough shots on the Bulls team as their young stars develop and Mobley will be in the same situation as he is in now. Right now I think the Bulls are looking for veteran leadership, Mobley doesn't fit that role. Just my thoughts, flawed as usual.
In honor of the strangely absent Hottoddie: Houston trades: PG Steve Francis (18.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5.2 apg in 38.9 minutes) Houston receives: SF Donyell Marshall (8.7 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.8 apg in 25.7 minutes) PF Tyson Chandler (13.0 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 28.6 minutes) PG Jamal Crawford (14.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.0 apg in 29.9 minutes) Change in team outlook: +17.9 ppg, +13.4 rpg, and +2.6 apg. Chicago trades: SF Donyell Marshall (8.7 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.8 apg in 25.7 minutes) PF Tyson Chandler (13.0 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 28.6 minutes) PG Jamal Crawford (14.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 5.0 apg in 29.9 minutes) Chicago receives: PG Steve Francis (18.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5.2 apg in 13 games) Change in team outlook: -17.9 ppg, -13.4 rpg, and -2.6 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Chicago gets the "Michael Jordan" they crave, and the Rockets get two upcoming stars in Chandler and Crawford with a salary to shed or trade for the upcoming year (Marshall). I would like to see Chicago throw in a first rounder for next year, but that might be pushing it. Now, I'd not that eager to get rid of Steve Francis, but we're just talking here. The Rockets get a really tall backcourt (Crawford and Jim Jackson or Eric Piatkowski) and a really tall front court (Yao and Chandler) with a very talented backup squad (Cato and Taylor). Youth is served, and the Rockets still have a talented team.
I would do it...what would happen to Mobley? And what happened to Hottodie?!? Crawford 30/Mobley 18/Norris/Wilks Mobley 18/Piatkowski 15/Jackson 15 Piatkowski 15/Jackson 15/Padgett/Griffin/Nachbar Chandler 28/Taylor 20/Ford Yao 35/Cato 13/Amaechi I think this team would be good...as long as Yao continues to improve. I would like it...but Bulls would have to add a 1st round pick definitely! And...I don't think the Bulls would do it.
