OK, it took me a while to finally post something about this but here goes: Well my girlfriend and her family are Catholics while my family members are Baptists. So a week before Christmas she lays it on me that we are going to something called Midnight Mass, which is something Catholics attend every year on Christmas Eve. So I was like OK no big deal, I'll go. Well she and myself were joined by her sister and a friend of ours who is also a Baptist. So we get to the church and go in and right off the bat things go wrong. My girlfriend and her sister both touch the holy water and cross their hearts while me and our friend don't looking like dumbasses. Then we are waiting for about 30 minutes while the choir is singing not expecting much and then the bells start to ring. So then the "fathers" walk down the aisle holding up things and then mass began. While mass is going on the "fathers" kept saying things and the whole congregation would repeat certain things after him and me and our friend were looking at each other like damn...what is going on? Then we started praying, now being a Baptist while you pray your head is supposed to be down with your eyes closed but I found out that most Catholics pray with their eyes wide open and their heads up. Me and our friend were the only ones in the church with our heads down! During some prayers everybody would actually hold hands which would confuse me later on because everybody started shaking hands saying "Peace Be With You" and I was trying to hold their hands.. Then everybody let down a knee rest and fell to their knees and started praying...everybody except ME! Then me and my friend were the only ones not to participate in communion. Before that experience I thought all Christianity based religions were the same with some slight differences but now I know that that is very untrue. Has anybody ever had an experience like this where you were a member of a faith and you went to another faith's sermon and experienced "religious shock"?
Story of my life. I dated and eventually married a Catholic, though I was raised mostly evangelical and always had a sort of Baptist streak. I've been attending Catholic services for, wow, five years now. After studying and thinking long and hard, I decided they were both valid Christian denominations and there was no serious theological conflict. But it doesn't make it feel much easier attending services that are just different. I've learned to cross myself. I just can't bring myself to do the holy water thing, though - I just feel too aware that it's not some physical object like the water which confers grace upon you. If that makes any sense. I keep meaning to do that genuflecting thing in front of the pew, but haven't yet because 1) it's just easier not to, and 2) I haven't practiced and am afraid I'd do it wrong. I'm still not used to praying with my eyes open or my head up in church, but some Catholics bow their heads and close their eyes anyway. That's the big difference - in a Protestant church, everybody does the same thing at the same time. It's too strange when different people are reacting in different ways. (not to mention before the service when different people kneel at different times. If you're on a kneeler and the person in front of you is sitting, you're literally breathing down their neck. I refuse to do that. Besides, my body is still getting used to kneeling for long periods of time.) The worst part, for me, is Communion. Hey, as far as we're concerned, they can come to our church and take it. But their church doesn't let them. I have no problem not taking their communion if they don't want me to (even though I think that whole thing is silly). But - what do you do during the service? I'm not exactly a tiny person and it's a noticeable interruption for people to be squeezing by me. Usually I try the "sit on the end and just stand beside the pew for a while" trick, which I've seen done successfully in some places, but in other churches people look at you like they expect you to go on. I guess what they really want is for me to go through RCIA and become Catholic if I have to hang around anyway, but I never felt the call to do that. My spiritual life was always fine without it, and I usually get more out of Protestant church services (less repetition of stuff from Sunday to Sunday - that's why they have it all memorized). But don't worry: the faiths themselves are really the same thing. Just different traditions and liturgy, and the unfortunate fact that some people on each side don't understand that. (oh, and does anyone else think it's funny that, when the priest says "This Mass is ended", everyone says "Thanks be to God"?)
Here's one from Christmas 2000. I went to Midnight Mass, took communion, and got the bread stuck in my teeth. I leaned over and whispered to my mom, "I've got the body of Christ stuck in my teeth". She didn't think it was too funny. I dated a Catholic for a year during high school. Kept me in shape for basketball season.
I am a Baptist but I went to Catholic High School. Over my four years there I found that they were actually pretty open to those of us who were not Catholic. My wife, when we first met also attended the Catholic church. I would go to service with her(nothing like going to church at 7:30 Sunday morning or on Saturday nite). I felt a little out of place but never felt like people were looking at me or passing judgement because I did not take communion or participate in the services.
I grew up in the Episcopal Church...my best friends growing up were Catholic...went to a Baptist university...married a southern Baptist from Little Rock...now attend a Presbyterian Church. At this point, I'm pretty comfortable everywhere. The message is largely the same across denominations, with some differences here and there. I do disagree with some approaches to things the Catholics do (like exclusivity of communion), but I disagree with many approaches the Baptist church takes as well. Ultimately they're all proclaiming Jesus Christ. Just in different ways, suited to different styles and tastes. I think God welcomes it all...and I find the liturgy of the high church to be every bit as spiritual as belting out a gospel song in a southern baptist church...and vice versa.
Tom Lehrer says: <i>First you get down on your knees, Fiddle with your rosaries, Bow your head with great respect, And genuflect, genuflect, genuflect! Do whatever steps you want, if You have cleared them with the Pontiff. Everybody say his own Kyrie eleison, Doin' the Vatican Rag. Get in line in that processional, Step into that small confessional, There, the guy who's got religion'll Tell you if your sin's original. If it is, try playin' it safer, Drink the wine and chew the wafer, Two, four, six, eight, Time to transubstantiate! So get down upon your knees, Fiddle with your rosaries, Bow your head with great respect, And genuflect, genuflect, genuflect! Make a cross on your abdomen, When in Rome do like a Roman, Ave Maria, Gee it's good to see ya, Gettin' ecstatic an' Sorta dramatic an' Doin' the Vatican Rag! </i>
I went through this same shock a little bit when I started dating my wife whose Catholic. While I don't agree with a lot of stuff Catholics do...the praying thing isn't one of them...as far as keeping eyes open, or kneeling. Growing up as a Protestant, we ususally bowed and closed eyes...every once and a while holding hands...but in the bible there is a huge number of different ways people pray. Arms uplifted, hands folded, eyes to heaven, bowed in reverence, eyes closed, eyes open, kneeling, sitting, prostrate on the floor...doesn't matter to me, as long as your prayer is heartfelt (which sometimes I feel like in the Catholic church its a little contrived, just memorized, no feeling from withen). All are examples from the bible. I could list all the things that bother me about Catholics, but they are still Christians, so that's OK with me...allthough it still bothers me that I'm not truly part of Christ unless I'm part of the Catholic church to them...and they try to bring all churches to the Catholic church...when my church usually lets other Christians do their thing, respects them, and tries to bring in non-Christians to let them hear the word. Anyways...lots of people go through this...don't worry about it too much...after going a couple of times you'll find that you'll get used to it... Hints: Lean forward when everybody else is kneeling, thus not having someone breath down your neck... If you feel weird not knowing the words to stuff, follow along in the little book..the Missasomething...and you'll be prepared for answering stuff...its all printed out. If you feel weird not taking communion and just sitting there, you can go on up with everybody else and when its your turn, stand in front of the Priest and cross your arms on your chest and he'll "bless" you. Then just walk back...and I've been told its perfectly acceptable for non-Catholics to do this. Hope that helps.
Kudos on abstaining from communion. Non-catholics aren't supposed to participate in it as Clinton found out a number of years back. Btw, I routinely do not participate in a lot of the things my church does -- communion, singing, praying, responding, etc. I felt self-conscious about that for awhile but later found that the other congregants did not take exception.
The excuse is that they wish all Christians to be united, however, since they aren't, that reality must be reflected in the communion. (Which I don't like, because it's circular logic. How are we ever supposed to get united if we don't do something about it? Of course, some of their ideas of "united" would be everybody rejoining the Catholic church, which seems unrealistic.) Some believe that the reason is that the rest of us don't see it as transubstantiation; in other words, that we don't think it is really the Body and Blood of Christ, so we can't take it. Well, physically, if you were to do chemical tests on it, it would be seen to be bread and wine. Since they still believe it retains the "physical nature of bread and wine"... well, we do too. So what's the problem? I believe we attach the same significance to communion; it's just that people don't see it that way. They are also very strict in how they want the Body and Blood of Christ presented, and they believe that any non-Catholic who takes it might not be truly understanding what they are doing. We haven't gone through their confirmation classes or anything. (Of course, what they should be really worrying about are those who are purposefully continuing in a sinful existence and take it anyway. Not to mention those who participate in unspeakable acts and then go out and <i>administer</i> communion to others. But I guess the church lets them incur their own condemnation.) The whole Catholic worship service is centered around communion. When they go to Protestant services, they feel like something is missing (unless it's communion Sunday). For them, the center of the church experience is supposed to be experiencing Christ taken into themselves in that manner. For us, the center of the church experience is being educated and listening to a message that will help us grow in our faith. Not sure what the right answer is, but to the best of my beliefs it's cultural differences and any Christian worship is better than none. I can understand why the mystical experience of Communion might be lacking in the churches that don't take it that often; however, I can't agree that the Catholic communion is the only valid one, when lots of people have taken it in good faith that the others will work as well. I don't think that faith counts for nothing. I respect the Catholic church a lot and don't actively disagree with it theologically... and, yes, I know it can claim to be descended in a direct line from the original Church, but how much should the past have to do with what's here now? I personally find myself spiritually experiencing and growing more at Protestant services, though to be fair 1) I don't get the benefit of the communion at Catholic services, and 2) part of it is just what you're used to. Or, on the other hand, what you didn't grow up with and feel that you need more than ever...
Isabel summed things up pretty well. The following links to more details regarding the reception of Communion. http://www.catholic.com/library/who_can_receive_communion.asp
The funny thing is...is that the Catholic Church wants unity, but they only accept unity if YOU join the Catholic church...but the weird thing is, they accept and recognize non-Catholic Christians as Christians...so basically they are saying that even though we want unity, we want it within only our church. Most other churches want unity and they see that the way to accomplish this is to bring unity among Christians first...by allowing all Christians to take part in Communion whether of their particular denomination or not...that way, we are all unified as Christians, we just practice it a little different from one another, but are Christians nonetheless. For those of you that want a Protestant church that takes communion every Sunday...try going to a Church of Christ. (not of latter day saints)...not mormon...sometimes people get that confused...BUT...be careful...there are two kinds of Church of Christ. 1) Big City, bring everybody in, preach the word, take communion enjoy one another's fellowship Church of Christ (ex. Bammel Road, Kleinwood, Champions, even Texas A&M Church of Christ). 2) We are the only way, everyone else is a sinner, small town, old, don't have a life, Church of Christ (usually found in small towns of less than 3000 people in West and South Texas) If you live anywhere near North Houston, I highly recommend Bammel Church of Christ for those of you who want a progressive, help the community, preach of the word as a lesson style of church that allows you to partake communion if you are Christian from any denomination every Sunday.
My understanding of why Catholics don't allow non-Catholics to partake is significantly different from Isabel's. As I understand it, Catholics much more than Protestants stress the importance of the Church (meaning here not the particular Church nor even the Roman Catholic Church, but rather Christ's Church, that is the whole body of believers -- but not as a collection but as a corporate body that is more than the sum of its constituent parts) in the life and salvation of a Christian. They do have significant Biblical evidence for this. They also believe the pope to be the legitimate heir of the head of that Church (based on a mix of scripture and tradition (protestants, of course, deny the importance of tradition)). So, believers who remain outside the church (the Roman Catholic one) but still within the Church (Christ's) may be in good enough stead with God for salvation but are not fully functioning members of God's host. I don't think it is so much because they want to be united as it is that there are some basic standards they just won't violate. This isn't unique to the Catholic church. My own church, which is Presbyterian (PCA), does communion every Sunday and each time discourages people who have not made a profession of faith in an evangelical (for which they have a very particular definition) church from partaking -- both in writing and verbally. I think it would be almost as inappropriate for a Catholic to take communion in my church as it would be for a fellow congregant to take communion at a Catholic church -- though I'm not sure because I forget their definition as to who is allowed.
wow..i go to a PCUSA church and they welcome anyone to take communion... i personally don't believe on putting qualifications for people to share in the physical/spiritual sacrament of God's grace. but that's just my opinion...it's a minor issue...we should be more focused on what unites us as Christians.
Jesus did not deny his message and love or sacrifice to anybody, saint or sinner. How can a church deny someone to share in the taking of Christ, when Christ himself denied it to nobody.
I'm not sure they totally believe it this way... ...that would be like saying, "You are good enough to be saved by God, and you have found Jesus, but you are not good enough to be part of his church." I don't think it works this way...Nobody is good enough for God and its through Jesus that you are able to be in his Grace...and if your in his Grace...through Jesus...who is the church think it is to deny your fellowship in the Supper.
why have this argument?? i agree with the protestant viewpoint here..but is it worth dividing over?? i say it's not...
Judging from your response, I get the feeling I didn't express myself well. I wasn't trying to say anything about being good enough for anything. Max, PCA and PCUSA are at just about opposite ends of the protestant spectrum so I'm not surprised. But, it isn't like they have ushers policing the communion table making sure everyone is ok. They tell you that communion is holy and to take the communion in an unholy manner would be an affront and an insult to the sanctity they try to achieve. I can appreciate that which is partly why I abstain. I think the potential communion-taker should respect that for his own sake as well. Should you take communion in a church you think is terribly wrong in its approach to communion?
