Well, not really. I've been thinking about what he said 2 or 3 weeks ago in another thread & decided to throw some mud on the wall to see if it stuck. If I remember correctly, he hinted that the Rockets might look to acquire a veteran PG & SG from the East, & a veteran PF from the West. I know that some of you guys would love to entertain the idea of us getting that superstar in exchange for Collier/Moochie, but let's face it, that ain't gonna happen. Here's a 4 team trade that I threw together & why I believe it helps us: Houston sends Cato to Detroit. Houston sends Mobley to Milwaukee. Houston sends Griffin/Moochie to Golden State. Detroit sends Jon Barry/Rebracca to Houston. Milwaukee sends Cassell to Houston. Golden State sends Fortson to Houston. Detroit gets a starting center to pair with Wallace for a tough inside presence. Milwaukee can resign Payton & replace their second PG (Cassell) with a legitimate SG. Golden State moves a PF that has fallen out of favor for a promising young PF in Griffin. They also have to take Moochie to get Griffin. Houston moves Francis over to SG & inserts Cassell as the starting PG. We get a veteran backup at SG in Barry with some size (6'5"), a nice backup at center in Rebracca (we lose some rebounding & shot blocking, but gain some offensive punch off the bench). And finally, we get a starting PF with a nice low post game that averaged a double-double just last year, in Fortson. Our new lineup would be: C: Yao/Rebracca/Collier? PF: Fortson/Taylor/T-Mo SF: Posey/Rice/Nachbar/T-Mo SG: Francis/Barry PG: Cassell/FA (Tyronn Lue?) Okay, so this probably isn't anywhere near close to what Doc was hinting at, but it's a start. Anyone got any better ideas?
I don't know anything about possible trade rumors, but I will say that the Rockets starting five will consist of the following. 1. Steve Francis 2. Cuttino Mobely 3. James Possey 4. Eddie Griffin 5. Yao Ming ...but thats just my guess, of course.
If Doc Rocket was right, I don't know what the rox brass are thinking. This east/west thing is stupid. That's just DR (who's not even 50% right, btw ) being mr. puzzle man. That whole biz blows. I hope they have enough sense to look at the whole league, and it's not some stupid puzzle game in the real world. and Toddie, why do you bother with 4 team trades? I challenge you to present a 2 team trade. I don't think you can, anymore. If DR's goofy fantasy is on, sure,I'd like Brand, Odom, M.Redd and A. Williams. It was 2 clips, a pf w, a sg and a pg, e, right? The post made me think they got wet panties and were running after bail-me-out -I-can't coach! vets like GP and Karla. Sick. Only morons would make that kind of boneheaded move.
since, everybody's posting stupid trades, here's one of my own stupid trade proposals houston trades eddie griffin to clippers for their first round lottery pick houston trades cato to memphis for our lottery pick back if its in top 5. houston trades moochie and nachbar for adonal foyle.
If you insist, I'll take that challenge. 2 Team Trade #1 Houston sends Cato to Detroit. Detroit sends Jon Barry/Rebracca to Houston. 2 Team Trade #2 Houston sends Mobley to Milwaukee. Milwaukee sends Cassell to Houston. 2 Team Trade #3 Houston sends Griffin/Moochie to Golden State. Golden State sends Fortson to Houston. How's that? Better?
i wouldnt want to do any of these trades. dont get me wrong. they seem to help the other teams, but they bring us about even.
Since your statement implies that you feel this is a stupid trade, how about telling me why you feel that way....., or can you? This next commentary that I'm about to make isn't just directed at you Spiral, but at a good majority of the posters on this board. I've said it before & I'll say it again. I get so tired of all the so-called experts on this board that know everything that won't work, but don't have the slightest clue as to what will work. They don't even try to extend the dialogue & tweak the proposal, or even offer what they believe to be a realistic counter proposal. All they say is, "It sucks", "No way we do that", "The Rockets get screwed in that deal", "The other team gets screwed in that deal", etc. etc. Just a bunch of one line comments that have no substance what so ever. This board used to be fun to come to, but it's gotten to the point where it's not worth the effort anymore. Many of the key veteran posters don't even come around anymore. Why should they? They're almost assured of getting flamed by one of these new & improved experts. There was a time when Doc Rocket & Oeilpere were revered around here. Now, they rarely ever come around & share their insider information. Just because the information they share with us doesn't always come true, it doesn't make it any less valuable to true fans. How about showing them a little more respect than has been shown lately? Awwww, what's the use? Someone will probably flame my rant by saying, "That sucks", "It won't work", "Why should I listen to them when I can read Peter Vescey's inciteful articles?", or some other pointless one liner.
Hmm...well Jon Barry, Rebraca, Cassell, and Fortson would be nice. But why would Detroit want a Ben Wallace wannabe when they already have the real Ben Wallace? Milwaukee...Payton and Mobley would be good. But they already have way too many guards. And forwards...I think Milwaukee wants Cato more than Detroit. Golden State...Griffin alone is better than Fortson. Although Fortson is massive rebounder...Griffin still has potential. But Moochie?!? Get rid of him please!
If you look at them individually, I agree with you. However, if you look at them cumulatively, they strengthen our guard positions & add depth, while giving us a 27 year old PF that averaged a double-double just last year. Francis is an upgrade to Mobley at the SG position & Cassell, if he doesn't upgrade the PG position, at least keeps it even with where we are right now, while Barry upgrades our depth. If we can sign Lue to back up Cassell at PG, then our guards are set. Rebracca replacing Cato's 17mpg (maybe even less next year) is a break even move & his contract expires the same time as Rice's. Cato's contract lasts for 2 more years beyond that & will be in the $8-9 mill per year range. A 17mpg backup making that much? If Fortson plays up to his form of a year ago, we have the perfect low post PF to play alongside Yao that can easily average a double-double on most nights & is a monster on the glass. Fortson is a nice compliment to Taylor's mid-range offensive game off the bench. Imo, this trade makes us 2 deep at every position, with the only question being at SF. If we resign Posey (& I believe we must), then the only question is, who will step up & be the backup SF? I suspect that Rice will be traded for his expiring contract. Will Nachbar be ready to take the next step, or will we trade Rice for a backup SF & other considerations? If Nachbar steps up, will we just let Rice's contract expire for cap purposes?
"Houston sends Cato to Detroit. Houston sends Mobley to Milwaukee. Houston sends Griffin/Moochie to Golden State. Detroit sends Jon Barry/Rebracca to Houston. Milwaukee sends Cassell to Houston. Golden State sends Fortson to Houston. "-hottoddie trade ok, here's why it's a stupid proposal. not to offend you or anything. but it is stupid. true, it works on realgm's trade checker. but it is unrealistic to assume that the bucks would trade cassell for mobley when they already have desmond mason and michael redd at shooting guard. in the golden state deal that you proposed, you wanted fortson, fortson is not worth giving up on eddie griffin. the warriors were actually trying to give away fortson for practically nothing before. in this trade, you underestimated griffin's trade value. as for the detroit trade, you underestimated cato's value, he's actually a rare and valuable commodity that you might even be able to acquire a lottery pick with. it's a known fact that memphis is looking for a physical tough enforcer type player which jerry west believes he can't get out of the draft and his team sorely needs and he's been said to intend to trade his lottery pick. jon barry is a aging backup shooting guard who will soon probably retire. the guy is a good shooting guard, but he's too old. and as for rebraca, he's 31 years old and he has no defensive ability. oh, and i never claimed to be a so called expert, and it doesn't take an expert to see why this trade is unrealistic and of no benefit to the rockets. oh i have a slight clue as to what will work, but is there any real point in talking about trades, when none of us work for the rockets or are in the gm position. all we see is ridiculous proposals for the same players, lamar odom, elton brand, etc etc, while its nice to dream, its hard to believe it becoming reality.
HT, You are trading 3 of our best defenders (Mobley, Cato, and Griffin, hey Griffin being one of our best defenders is a sad commentary on the Rox defense) and not one of the players we get back plays d better than Francis (which means not good btw).
Hottoddie: Fear not, there are some of us who enjoy your posts even though we might not agree with them. If I were going to part with Eddie Griffin for someone in G.S., I would certainly ask for Troy Murphy instead of Danny Fortson. If the Rockets wanted an undersized PF a la Fortson, why didn't we keep Kenny Thomas? In the Detroit deal, I would ask for Jon Barry and Mehmet Okur, rather than Rebraca. I am undecided about the wisdom of exchanging Mobley for Cassell, but I think Milwaukee has too many guards as it is. However, please continue the trial trade balloons. Not only are they fun but they stimulate different ways of looking at how the Rockets could be.
Throw it down big man!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats the worst pass in the history of the franchise!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and they keep going and going.......
I have a different answer to Doc's riddle. First, consider what Doc's source said about Steve: "He said 'He'll be playing the 2!' ". This year Steve "played the 2" when Mobely went to the bench. It was Doc's statement that he would "be the 2", not his source. Next, consider there was a trade proposed that may still be on the table. Could the trade be: Mobely and Taylor for Best and Jones? (Eastern conference 1 and 2). Then we trade Griffin and Norris for Fortson (a Western conference 4). Obviously we have to use the MCE to sign a backup 4. The only flaw I see is Doc knows who we are looking at, and he wouldn't have said "Steve's the 2" is his source meant he would "play the 2". j
Thumbs, Fortson has 4 years left on his contract. I doubt that they'll just release him. As for him being undersized, are you just referring to his height? Here's how Fortson measures up to some other PF's in the game: Fortson: 6'8" 260lbs. Brand: 6'8" 265lbs. Malone: 6'9" 256lbs. Rasheed Wallace: 6'11" 230lbs. Zach Randolph: 6'9" 253lbs. Webber: 6'10" 245lbs. Kenyon Martin: 6'9" 234lbs. Ben Wallace: 6'9" 240lbs. Brian Grant: 6'9" 254lbs. SAR: 6'9" 245lbs. He's the same size as Brand & while he's 1" shorter than the majority of PF's in the league, he out weighs most of them by 10-30 lbs. As for keeping KT, he was & is an undersized PF at 6'7" 245lbs. But, how do you measure heart?
Kenny Thomas? You mean good backup pf Kenny Thomas? You mean square peg in round hole Kenny Thomas in houston? Where's this heart that Mo Taylor hasn't shown? It's a fans myth, ah that explains it. Mo Taylor gets little respect on this board while KT is revered, and that's a damn shame. You know why? Mo > Kenny. He has better offensive moves, fits in our team concept, is just as young, and is a better rebounder than most people give him credit for. We won that Posey-Thomas deal, and kudos to CD for dealing thomas at the peak of his value. Just wait until he gets paid and then we can call him overpaid too, because it will happen. As far as these trades. The detroit one isnt bad, but barry is a fa, so we don't have to give up kelvin for him. The milwaukee one makes no sense for either team. Milwaukee doesnt need mobley and while we want a pg, cassell is a no defense playing, me first, whiny baby kind of player. While I'm in favor of moving cat, not for Sam I am. Then the last one is atrocious. We give up on a promising 20 year old for a guy GS just wants to release? Fortson wasn't that good when healthy and he certainly isn't better now. You really come up with some weird trades, that amazingly, don't make the rockets better, hotoddie.
