Sounds like an interesting idea. http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=102480a9-89e9-4018-a8ab-f07c99cd1d5c&k=50963
**snickers** Does this mean that if someone believes homosexuality is good, then that constitutes loyalty to Germany, or that Germany is a gay country? Funny stuff Germany, funny stuff...
Oh well, this is their country! I think it's their right to do whatever they like whether we like it or not!
I think this is a brilliant idea. I wouldn't be surprised if Holland, France and the UK took up similar methods soon.
A terrorist/radical focused on a 'larger goal' won't think twice about telling the authorities what they want to hear. It's a waste of time and won't work at all, but they're welcome to try it. I agree it's their country and they should be able to design their immigration policy in whichever manner they choose. I am merely fascinated by their stupidity really more than anything else.
this is just a pathetic test. People who are willing to kill people will have no problem lying. It is discriminating, why only muslims? If you do such a test do it for everybpody who wants to life in your country. IMO it is pathetic the way a lot of governments are just trying increasing the distrust that people have in Muslims. IMHO every radical group(no matter what religion or belief) can be dangerous. Once the Netherlands was known for their tolerance, but that time is long gone. To bad i liked living in a tolerant country.
Why only Muslims? Because "Muslims" are the ones blowing people up. Muslims, especially in Europe, also distance themselves from the countries culture and ideals. They dress differently, speak a different language, attend a different church, pledge loyalty not to the country that they live in, but to God, etc. So a test given to Muslims before gaining citezenship would ensure (in theory) the government that these people will be loyal to Germany and be peaceful, law abiding citizens.
Only Muslims kill people??? Are you sure? Are the jews from israel Muslims, or people from the IRA ?? As far as i remember people from every religion (and also atheists) kill people. the reason people might think that muslims distance themselves from culture of european countrys are because european countries have different cultures then islamic countrys, so if a christian goes to life in a islamic country do you think he will suddenly also not eat during the ramadan?? IMO muslims should stay muslim, ofcourse they have to follow the rules of the country's they life in. But they should also follow their religion, like everybody from every religion should do. IMO every religious person pledges loyalty to a religion and not to a country. I for one would never pledge loyalty to any country. Because i do not believe that one country is better then another. Because if i pledge loyalty to a country i would have to support them even when they attack an innocent country(I'm not revering to the invading of iraq). I have my ideals and i life by them, and not by how my country wants me to life.
I'm afraid that this is possible(even verry likely). because the dutch government are trying to increase the distrust people have in the islam. They are even talking about banning the Burka.
1. When was the last time the IRA killed anyone? 10 years ago? Are Jews blowing themselves up and killing innocents in the name of their "religion"? I think not. 2. I'm not saying Muslims should give up their religion. I didn't say that anywhere. I'm saying that since the issue is Muslims wanting to be citizens of non Muslim countries then it should be ensured before they become citizens that they do not pose a threat to the country in any way and would be loyal to that country. Is it not possible to be loyal to both a country and a religion at the same time? Why should these people be allowed citizenship if they will not be loyal? And by loyal I dont mean supporting the administration, or economic policies, etc. I mean not spying, not killing, obeying the rules.
They are not trying to increase distrust, they are trying to increase security. And, Holland wants to keep its national identity. They dont want people acting differently from the culture and ideals of the country because this causes consternation and anxiety. Thus, their Dutch citizens to act Dutch. That is not too much to ask at all.
I'm not sure when the IRA killed the last person, however saying that only muslims kill people is not true. About the jews in Israel you can debate wether if they do if in name of their religion. IMO the Muslims who do kill in name of their religion do not understand their own religion, because the Islamic faith does not support killing other people, Like almost every religion they preach love not hate. i think you can be loyal to you country and to your religion, as long as your country respects your religion (and that is not always the case with Islamic and the Netherlands). I agree with you that people should not spy not kill and obey the rules of the countrys they life in. However that goes for every person no matter their religion or culture. The thing i really hate is the fact that some european governments discriminate Muslims because of their religion, IMO this is one of these cases. I can somehow understand them wanting a test like this(however these kind of tests only increase the fear of the people of that country, but some governments like it when their people have some fear). But it is ridiculous to only have muslims take these tests, and other people not. BTW how do they determine if someone is a muslim? Will they test every eastern looking person(their are also white muslims)?
And what is The dutch identity?? That changes over time. One of the things that was typical dutch was the fact that we were very tolerant of other cultures, we are changing this. And i do not like it. And why change it it is a typical dutch thing so now they want us dutch to not act like dutch people(in this case not being tolerant). We life in a country were every religion is respected, atleast it used to be. The tolerance in the dutch life is long gone, and i for one are really sad about this.
It's not that these countries dont respect Islam, they do allow it, but that they are concerned that purported "Muslims" will pose threats to national security. This is an obvious precaution; you can say its not only Muslims all you want, but in reality it is "Muslims" who commit the vast majority of terrorist acts. Also, the questions to the Muslims wanting citezenship are designed to directly target problems that might occur from "Muslims." These are violence, domestic abuse (man beating wife) etc.
Have you ever realized that perhaps the Muslims living in Holland are far more intolerant than the Dutch government? I don't know about Holland, but in England the Muslims do not interact with any non Muslims. They disdain non Muslims and hell, they even blow them up on trains. These "Muslims" should not be allowed in the country, let alone have citezenship. That is why a loyalty test is a good idea.
of all the people who get killed in holland, most deaths are not done by muslims. All i'm saying that if you want such a test you have to do it with everybody and not Muslims, because otherwise you are discriminating(and we are a free country and we do not discriminate). IMO it might not be that the dutch government doesn't respect the Islam. however they do say a lot of things were they tell the dutch people that you should be carefull when you see a muslim. And they do increase the distrust of the dutch people in Muslims. Also it depents on what your defenition of terrorism is. Mostly act of terrorism are done by minorities (like in russia). And nowadays people like to use the words terrorists because when you use that term people tend to listen a little bit better. I think it is not good that an entire religion is judges because of the works of some idiots. (IIRC Hitler claimed to be christian, and i think we do not want to judge christianity by what hittler had done). So making people more scared of Mulsims is not a good thing to do, and these kind of rules increase this fear.
Tests are done by Germany to non Muslims wanting citezenship, as they are done by all countries. This new "loyalty test" is a test specifically designed to target problems that Muslims are known to cause. This is not discrimination, it is an attempt to get rid of it.
I do not think that Muslims are more intolerant in holland then non Muslims. When a Muslim(or somebody that looks Islamic) walks in a store, the storeemployees do not trust them, more then white people. When an islamic person starts to talk to a dutch person the changes are that the dutch person want to avoid them. About the people that blow people up in the train, They are not real Muslims, they are idiots that want to do violent things, they just need something to blame it on.
