I've been a big New Order fan since the mid 80's, but never really gave much thought to the mechanics that make the group successful. So I've got three points I'd like to touch on. One is a comment, one is a question and the last is a suggestion/recommendation. Comment: Bernard Sumner has one of the smoothest sounding voices I've ever heard and I really think that is what makes this group happen. I know they have the trademark twangy guitar sound that no other groups produce, but I think at the forefront is Sumner's ability to belt out some serious vocals. Question: (sorta tied to the comment) In order for Sumner's voice to sound so smooth, is it *over-produced* in the studio to achieve that effect? I know a lot of today's singers sound terrible in live performances (i.e. Ashlee Simpson), but sound significantly better when the studio brushes up their voice. Just curious if any of you know how much correcting the studio does to his voice. Recommendation: I listen to di.fm's online progressive channel while at work and a dj threw down a set one day that included a New Order remix that absolutely blew me away. It was "Waiting For The Sirens' Call (Planet Funk Remix)". I'd definitely suggest it to anyone who is into trance and/or electro edm. Enjoy!!!
I saw New Order at Astroworld in the late 80's (I think Erasure was on the bill too). I really enjoyed it. I thought they sounded not as great as the album, but pretty good overall. They have so many dance mixes now though and most of those have an over produced sound.
A friend of mine is pretty good pals with Bernard [and the rest of the band] and went and partied with them during their last tour at Coachella. I downloaded their last album for the heck of it, but just couldn't get into it. It's not a bad album at all. I still like them, but just can't really listen to them too often any more. I'm not sure if his voice is over-filtered but it has always sounded the same to me at least. They were always good in concert, but I think anyone would have been good in my frame of mind... ____ Speaking of smooth voices from that era -- The Church just put out a new album that is good and they just came through town [Houston/ Austin].
Comment: Bernard Sumner has one of the smoothest sounding voices I've ever heard and I really think that is what makes this group happen. I know they have the trademark twangy guitar sound that no other groups produce, but I think at the forefront is Sumner's ability to belt out some serious vocals. - Perhaps it's just because Bernard didn't sing until Ian Curtis exited stage left, but I always thought his voice to be fragile and limited (range wise). That's not to say his vocals are not good; they are in fact very appealing to my ear and have a very distinctive resonance - Question: (sorta tied to the comment) In order for Sumner's voice to sound so smooth, is it *over-produced* in the studio to achieve that effect? I know a lot of today's singers sound terrible in live performances (i.e. Ashlee Simpson), but sound significantly better when the studio brushes up their voice. Just curious if any of you know how much correcting the studio does to his voice. - I have not detected a significant amout of 'studio magic' applied to Sumners vocals. If anything, they sound to be recorded relatively dry with perhaps a small amount of reverb. I will now have to search for some examples of his live performances (to satisfy my curiosity), but I wouldn't be surprised to learn his vocals are often swallowed up unless the rest of the band is playing at a restrained volume and he has a VERY good PA system. In order to get that even and smooth voicing he achieves one can't be shouting. Come to think of it, Sumner is something of a crooner - Recommendation: I listen to di.fm's online progressive channel while at work and a dj threw down a set one day that included a New Order remix that absolutely blew me away. It was "Waiting For The Sirens' Call (Planet Funk Remix)". I'd definitely suggest it to anyone who is into trance and/or electro edm. Enjoy!!![/QUOTE] - Thanks for the tip.
and you actually admit that? and to "OOMP" above, perhaps it was Depeche Mode as opposed to Erasure? I think this was my first concert (OMD and depeche mode) around 85-87.
I saw them a number of times and they always sounded great. Every thing sounded great I felt good no I felt great I met some new wave punk chicks and we had a great time the late 80s early 90s was a great time for that sort of thing what I can remember of it I always remember feeling good though and new order sounding great
New Order, Depeche Mode, The Cure = The Holy Trinity of the so called New Wave Bands from the 80's that influenced many bands today Sumner didn't have the most dynamic voice like David Gahan had, but it was distinctive and fit their music well.
That was my first concert too. OMD opened for Depeche Mode. It was in 88. Ah, good times. R.I.P., Astroworld.
I think that Erasure should be added to the core new wave list. The first album that I ever bought was Substance and the first song that I learned to play on the keyboard was "True Faith". Considering that I play the keyboard for a living now, I have a special place in my heart for New Order. Thinking of New Wave music reminds me of the good times that I used to have at Studio Circus in Fame City.
Sumner does have a bit of studio magic added to his voice especially early on before he became more confident in his singing. But they are underplayed and it isn't totally obvious. On the latest album he abandoned it and went more natural. I didn't like the latest album that much except for 1 or 2 songs. It kind of reminded me of Republic that way. The strange thing is that early on in concert Bernard always seemed angry and pissed, but recently when I saw them he was actually dancing around and spinning. It seemed out of place, strange, and I didn't like it. It wasn't huge enough to ruin the show or anything, but it was odd. I think more than the twangy guitar, New Order's signature is Peter Hooks innovative bass playing.
No, I'm pretty sure it was New Order and Erasure in 89. I heard a lot about that DM show, but wasn't there. I got to see them a few years later on the Violator Tour at the Woodlands with Nitzer Ebb. I would have loved to see OMD.
out of all those bands (erasure, depeche mode, new order, pet shop boys) new order is the only one i can still listen to w/out cringing. in fact, i still love new order - one of my all-time favorite bands. i dont think bernards vocals had much processing on them. as win mentioned, they usually sounded pretty dry in the mix. maybe a vocoder effect here and there, but nothing to mask any percieved lack of ability, a' la ashlee simpson. i think bernard is very underrated as a guitar player. he has some really cool melodies. not really solos, but just cool melodic guitar lead-type stuff. im a guitar player and along w/ keith richards, joey santiago from the pixies and the edge, he is in my top 3 or 4 as far as influences go. most new order purists disagree, but i think technique was their finest moment. maybe b/c thats when i got into them (about 8th grade). power, corruption and lies is pretty great too. and i think those new order/erasure shows at starplex were seperate bills. im a bit hazy on that though as it was 8th grade.
the first time i saw New Order was on the Low Life tour at the Maceba Theater in Houston (it was on Main near Hwy.59.) now that's out of the way... replies to your original post: Comment: Bernard can't sing. that's actually one of the attributes of NO that make them unique. ordinary folks can relate to him because they can't sing either. Question: his voice sounds "over produced" because the mixers/engineers send it through certain combinations of effects -- because he can't sing and because it sounds cool. Recommendation: listen to Movement (Fact. 50) or Joy Division. i know these "comments" may come across as a bit harsh to some, but i assure you this: i am one of the biggest NO fans (that's still around.) Joy Division changed the landscape of music forever. NO is merely the extension of that movement (hence their first album title) into the 1980s. NO continues to be relevant because, while consistently adapting to- and creating new technologies, they still sound like NO. i'll admit there was a period where i didn't really "like" or listen to NO (Republic-era), but their back-catalogue remained and remains a staple in my playlists to this day. but seriously, barney can't sing, that fact is exemplified in the effects they use to distort his voice, and they peaked 1980-1985. was that discussion ok?
exactly... Erasure is "techo-pop" that evolved from the club scene in the mid-80's in Europe the Cure and Depeche Mode both came from the same music - but each evolved differently - remember, the Cure was guitars not keyboards (save for Disintegtration) also, I would like to point out that no one has mentioned in this discussion of New Order that the REAL godfather of their music was Joy Division
i dont think they started out w/ keys, but they were using them on kiss me kiss me kiss me (the best cure record) and the head on the door - listen to close to me - no guitars.
Great comments by all! Thanks for taking a trip down memory lane with me! Range (or lack thereof) is one of the keys to Sumner's voice. He doesn't have a wide range, but his voice sounds so smooth in most of NO's tracks. I guess that's one of the draws of NO for me...that and the twangy guitar. I still remember spending countless hours staying awake on Sunday nights watching 120 Minutes on MTV trying to record some of my favorite new wave artists on the VCR. Funny thing is that I still have the tapes that I made. I've got proof to show my grandkids that MTV actually played music videos. Ha!
new order, the cure, erasure, pet shop boys, depeche mode...all still great to listen to. shoot, went to the depeche mode concert a few months ago, and that was sweet..
