I was reading this on 82games.com http://82games.com/fantasy/41gamesin.htm and the comment about Josh Smith "He currently ranks 2nd in blocks with 3.32 per game and 11th in steals with 1.86 per game. I'm not sure the last time someone's steals + blocks were over 5, but I bet it's only happened a few times." I had to send the author an emailing noting that Hakeem did it in 9 of his 18 seasons, and 4 times was over 6, with his high at 6.71 in 89-90. Then, I got to thinking about Hakeem's 1989-1990 season. Forget wins/losses, etc. Just on pure stats...a fantasy perspective, if you will. Started and played in all 82 games. Per game averages: Minutes = 38.1% FG% = 50.1% 3 Pt % = 16.7% (hey, he made a few) FT% = 71.3% Of Reb. = 3.6 Def. Reb = 10.4 Total Reb = 14.00 Assists = 2.9 Steals = 2.12 Blocks = 4.59 Turnovers = 3.85 PF = 3.8 Points = 24.3 That's an amazing line. Certainly more impressive than the most impressive lines today (Lebron, Kobe). In terms of an all around line, Shaq's never been close (only above 3 blocks per game once, never above 1 steal per game, highest rebound per game season of 13.9, obviously the Ft problems). Certainly more impressive than David Robinson's best, or Karl Malone's or Tim Duncan's (two of the games best PF's ever, right?). And while Michael was consistently all around dominant, I'd put Hakeem's 89-90 season up against some of Michael's best statistical seasons. For MJ, that was probably 88-89, where he put up 32.5 points, 8 boards, 8 assists, 2.9 steals, .8 blocks on 53.8% shooting. MJ was great in 87-88, too. Magic had some great seasons. His best was probably 86-87 (23.9 points, 6.3 rebounds, 12.2 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.5 blocks on 52% shooting). But I think Hakeem's best competes quite well. He was a more dominant rebounder than Magic was a passer, and his 4.59 blocks is probably a more impressive feat than Magic's 6.3 boards. Now, of course, nobody can compete with the old guys. Kareem put up some mind-blowing statistical seasons. Before they started keeping steal block stats, in 71-72, he scored 34.8 with 16.6 boards, 4.6 assists on 57% shooting. Based on a few seasons later when the stats were kept, we can assume he was in the mid 1's on steals and mid 3's on blocks. Wilt's seasons will obviously put everyone to shame. Averaging over 50 points and 25 rebounds a game in the same season will do that. Or averaging 24 points, 24 rebounds and 8.6 assists another season. Or Bill Russel. Or Oscar Robertson (30.8 points, 12.5 rebounds, 11.4 assists). But it's so hard to tell what the competition levels were like back then. So, since 1980, what are the top statistical seasons ever? MJ 88-89 MJ 87-88 Hakeem 89-90 Magic 86-87 who am I missing?
In addition to the ones's you mention... Shaq 00-99: 29.7PPG 13.7RB 2.9BLk 3.8APG .5SPG 57%FG 51%FT--yes the FT was poor but his points, boards, FG and blocks were substantially better than Duncan's best; points, FG%, and assists substantivelty better than Hakeem's best as well. Robinson 03-04: 29.8PPG 10.7RB 4.8APG 1.7SPG 3.3BPG 51%FG 75%FT. Really quite an incredible regular season line--statistically one could not argue Hakeem was better. That was what the playoffs were for. ----close but next tier---- Bird 87-88 29.9PPG 9.3RPG 6.1A 1.6S .8B 53%FG 43%3 92%FT Bird 84-85 28.7PPG 10.5RB 6.6A 1.1S 1.2B 52%FG 43%3 88FT Chuck 90-91 27.6PPG 10.1RB 4.2APG 1.6SPG .5BPG 57%FG 72FT Chuck 92-93 25.6PPG 12.2RB 5.1APG 1.6SPG 1.0BL 52%FG 77FT Malone 89-90 31PPG 11.1RB 2.8APG 1.5SPG .6BPG 56%FG 76FT (the above 3 have some monster offensive seasons in production and efficiency, Bird's 84-85 total lines is probably more remarkable than any of Magic's IMO) KG 03-04 24PPG 13.9RPG 5.0APG 1.5SPG 2.2BPG 50% FG 79FT TD 01-02 25.5P 12.7RPG 3.7APG .7SPG 2.5BPG 51FG 80FT OVERALL, since the 90s (post Jordan's late 80s monster seasons) I would actually have to say Robinson had the most impressive single regular season line. He hit that 5 number in blocks/steals + nearly 30-11-5 points/boards/assists. It was the playoffs where his panzy side showed up.
I guess how we judge how impressive a player's stats are is sort of subjective. There are so many methods out there to rate players based on box score stats. Below are a couple. Based on PER, which tries to adjust for MPG and pace: Code: [B]Rk Player Season MP PER PTS AST ORB DRB TRB STL BLK TOV PF FG% 3P% FT%[/B] 1 Michael Jordan 1987-88 40.4 31.7 35.0 5.9 1.7 3.8 5.5 3.2 1.6 3.1 3.3 .535 .132 .841 2 Michael Jordan 1990-91 37.0 31.6 31.5 5.5 1.4 4.6 6.0 2.7 1.0 2.5 2.8 .539 .312 .851 3 Michael Jordan 1989-90 39.0 31.2 33.6 6.3 1.7 5.1 6.9 2.8 0.7 3.0 2.9 .526 .376 .848 4 Michael Jordan 1988-89 40.2 31.1 32.5 8.0 1.8 6.2 8.0 2.9 0.8 3.6 3.0 .538 .276 .850 5 David Robinson 1993-94 40.5 30.7 29.8 4.8 3.0 7.7 10.7 1.7 3.3 3.2 2.9 .507 .345 .749 6 Shaquille ONeal 1998-99 34.8 30.6 26.3 2.3 3.8 6.9 10.7 0.7 1.7 2.5 3.2 .576 .000 .540 7 Shaquille ONeal 1999-00 40.0 30.6 29.7 3.8 4.3 9.4 13.6 0.5 3.0 2.8 3.2 .574 .000 .524 8 Tracy McGrady 2002-03 39.4 30.3 32.1 5.5 1.6 4.9 6.5 1.7 0.8 2.6 2.1 .457 .386 .793 9 Shaquille ONeal 2000-01 39.5 30.2 28.7 3.7 3.9 8.8 12.7 0.6 2.8 2.9 3.5 .572 .000 .513 10 LeBron James 2007-08 40.2 30.1 30.1 7.2 1.8 6.1 7.8 2.0 1.1 3.3 2.2 .481 .298 .706 And here's a ranking based on a new stat from basketball-reference.com called Win Shared Above Average (WSAA). The idea is to come up with a rating that corresponds to the number of wins the player gives his team over what the team would get if he was replaced by an "average" player: Code: [B]Rk Player Season MP WSAA PTS ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF FG% 3P% FT%[/B] 1 Shaquille ONeal 1999-00 3163 29.0 29.7 4.3 9.4 13.6 3.8 0.5 3.0 2.8 3.2 .574 .000 .524 2 Michael Jordan 1987-88 3311 28.0 35.0 1.7 3.8 5.5 5.9 3.2 1.6 3.1 3.3 .535 .132 .841 3 Michael Jordan 1995-96 3090 28.0 30.4 1.8 4.8 6.6 4.3 2.2 0.5 2.4 2.4 .495 .427 .834 4 Michael Jordan 1988-89 3255 27.5 32.5 1.8 6.2 8.0 8.0 2.9 0.8 3.6 3.0 .538 .276 .850 5 David Robinson 1993-94 3241 27.5 29.8 3.0 7.7 10.7 4.8 1.7 3.3 3.2 2.9 .507 .345 .749 6 David Robinson 1994-95 3074 27.0 27.6 2.9 7.9 10.8 2.9 1.7 3.2 2.9 2.8 .530 .300 .774 7 Michael Jordan 1989-90 3197 26.5 33.6 1.7 5.1 6.9 6.3 2.8 0.7 3.0 2.9 .526 .376 .848 8 Michael Jordan 1990-91 3034 26.5 31.5 1.4 4.6 6.0 5.5 2.7 1.0 2.5 2.8 .539 .312 .851 9 David Robinson 1995-96 3019 26.5 25.0 3.9 8.3 12.2 3.0 1.4 3.3 2.3 3.2 .516 .333 .761 10 Kevin Garnett 2003-04 3231 26.5 24.2 3.0 10.9 13.9 5.0 1.5 2.2 2.6 2.5 .499 .256 .791 Hakeem had a 24.1 PER and 4.0 WSAA in the 89-90 season. That WSAA seems criminally low. Here are some more facts from that season. He played all 82 games that year, and the team won 41 games. Great individual defensive numbers, and that corresponded to the perhaps the best team defense in the league (Rockets were 1st in Defensive Efficiency that year). He was awesome on that end. Offensive numbers, however, may appear better at first glance than they actually were. It's easy to overlook that he averaged nearly 4 turnovers a game, for instance ... the highest of his career. His efficiency as represented by Offensive Rating was the lowest of his career up until the 99/00 season. Based on measures like PER and WSAA, Hakeem's best statistical seasons were 92/93 and 93/94. He earned 2 DPOY awards and an MVP in those years, and amongst Rockets teams where he was the only All-star those were also the only teams that were legitimate championship contenders.
yeah, i noticed both those. I'm ignoring WSAA completely, because I don't care about wins/losses here, just statistical lines. As for PER, the question becomes does the PER give enough emphasis to steal/blocks? I don't know. If the argument (as the fantasy writer's was), was that 5+ on steals blocks is just an amazing feat (and it may not be as uncommon as he originally thought), then 6.7 is super amazing. Not to mention the 14 rebounds. 30%-40% of the time, that's not good enough for league lead. Granted, turnovers are high and FG% is low. I can see how 92-93 he was statistically more effective, but its hard to see how 93-94 was statistically better than 89-90.
PER for those seasons are pretty close (24.1 in 89-90 versus 25.3 in in 93-94 isn't that different). Steals-turnovers is pretty much a wash between those two seasons. Hakeem had more rebounds/blocks in 89-90, while he had more points/assists in 93-94 with improved efficiency. And PER also adjusts for pace. The Rockets played at a much higher pace in 89-90 .. getting about 6.3% more possessions per minute than they did in the 93-94 season. So, when you put it altogether, based on PER his 93-94 looks a little better.
Durvasa's figures very support my contention that David Robinson's 03-04 was as statistically impressive as anyone's the last 15 years only further supports he had to be an extra big pansey not to lead his team far in the playoff success. He certainly deserves the Mermaid knick. Or maybe more appropriate, "The May Day Mermaid".
Robinson would perennially win those IBM Basketball Player of the Year awards, which were given to the player with the best stats.
I am sorry Robinson should be disqualified. For 2 reasons. 1. The Spurs once played the Clippers in a garbage game, they repeatedly dumped the ball off to Robinson. EVERY PLAY. It was like watching a joke. Keep in mind the Clippers were trash. The result was Robinson finishing with 70+ points against one of the worst teams ever. They did this to give him the scoring title. No class. A joke. 2. Robinson would play against lets say... Olden Polynice. He would put up 40, 16, and 5. He would do this to all the trash centers in the NBA (about 22 teams). Against the Olajuwons, Ewings, Mutombo, etc... He would play decent games. He made a living off destroying weak competition and couldn't deliver against the greats.
This isn't something new. NBA teams used to do that kind of stuff a lot. In the 70s, the Spurs fed the ball to Gervin continually to help him beat David Thompson for the scoring championship. It is known that in Wilt's 100 point game (really, most of the season) his team would get keep giving him the ball. They even fouled the opposing team to give him more opportunities to score at the end of that game. Bird had a 60 point game against the Hawks in the 80s where the Celtics fouled to get Bird an extra possession down the stretch. Hell, even more recently in Kobe's 81 point game the Lakers were giving Kobe the ball every single possession in the fourth quarter when the game was pretty much already decided. Don't tell me that didn't have to do with pumping up his point total.
All true. Good points. But that Robinson game just felt dirty. Never saw any of the other games in question.
Go look up Wilt's season's averages; everyone else pales in comparison. Also, Oscar Robertson once averaged a triple double for the season.
Steals and blocks count much more in fantasy leagues than they do in statistical analyses. If it nets you more wins, I guess that means having a big butt (Shaq) is more useful than handball-reflexes (Hakeem).
which is why even though PER's, etc. may say different things, from a pure stats amazing perspective, Hakeem's season is so impressive. Combine blocks (4.59), steals (2.12) and defensive boards (over 10.4, a double double for him even without counting offensive boards) and it's just an amazing feat.
To put it in perspective, Hakeem is the only player in NBA history to average at least 2 steals, 3 blocks, and 9 defensive rebounds a game. He did it 3 times.
Based on reading written accounts of Wilt's 100 point game and actually watching Kobe's 81 point game (which happened in a competitive game unlike Wilt's), Kobe's 81 was more difficult and amazing.
