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Most Comprehensive Jalen Sucks Thread

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Landry's Tooth, May 11, 2023.

  1. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    It is his third year, I think as posters said, it will be an important year for him. Tilly is not fooling around and is impatient about winning.

    The same can be said about KPJ who is in his 4th year. He stats pad his assists alright but that does not impress people much.....

    Shania Twain voice.
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

    Supporting Member

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  3. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Before you use statistics understand what they are.

    Usage rate tells you the percentage of possessions of a team that is ended by a player in the form of a shot attempt, turnover, assist, fta etc. It just tells you the percentage of possessions that end with a player.

    If you want to determine level of "primary ball handler" look at "time of possession with ball" which NBA.com records. And you will see there is a big gap between KPJ and the rest of the team.
     
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  4. Landry's Tooth

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    Well, Green was the primary ball handler about equal with KPJ. So he should have fewer assists than a pure PG, but then those players at PG are smaller on average so he should have more rebounds but doesn't relative.

    Luka is a combo 2/3 as much as he handles the ball. He was second in the league in usage.

    Green last year was 16th in usage. Only 5 players above him are point guards so it seems lile a weak argument.

    Less than 2% difference in 2pt, 3pt, and free throw%.

    Pretty close scoring wise.

    Looking at % more or less (not actual %)
    Edwards:
    32% more rebounds
    5% more assists
    80% more steals
    125% more blocks
    3% more turnovers committed
    24% more fouls commited

    Calculated using formulas out of downloaded data...

    So the other stuff Edwards is much better.
     
  5. CantStopJG24

    CantStopJG24 Member

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    I mean, we can't just compare numbers to say who had a better season. One player has been regarded as one of the best defenders at his position while the other is arguably one of the worst defenders at his position. If we're going to give Jalen a lifeline because he played on a worse roster than we also have to credit Ant for being able to put up those numbers while exerting energy defensively.
     
  6. MystikArkitect

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    *sigh*

    .....IGNORE....
     
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  7. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    You seem to just have a basic misunderstanding of how to judge analytics. Why even use fg%? We have efg% and ts% for a reason.
     
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  8. Landry's Tooth

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    Almost all these players went to bad teams. They were all top 10 picks.

    So quality of teammates and coaching is largely resolved at the macro level. Of course there are outliers...
     
  9. Landry's Tooth

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    Almost all these players went to bad teams. They were all top 10 picks.

    So quality of teammates and coaching is largely resolved at the macro level. Of course there are outliers...
    Because it's more detailed to see where the efficiency is coming from.

    Like instead of saying slugging% breaking down if he's a doubles guy or homer guy...
     
  10. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Is there anything that suggests that Edwards was top defender his second season? I don't put much stock in advanced defensive analytics but Edwards was a negative in DBPM. I mean I would assume one of the best defenders at a position would at least have a positive DBPM.
     
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  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Buddy this shows a basic misunderstanding of math. Fg% and 3pt percentage splits don't tell you where the efficiency comes from. Efg% and ts% do. Fg% and 3pt% can't tell you where the efficiency comes from without knowing the volume of attempts(the denominator). efg% and ts% provide significantly better context of where the efficiency comes from because it actually properly weights where the attempts come from.
     
  12. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Well, the Bucks flamed out so best Defense was not enough for 2nd round I guess.
     
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  13. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

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    Delete
     
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  14. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

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    One thing jalen green haters seem to have in common is they really suck at analyzing numbers.

    All that effort typing and credibility is already shot when op sincerely believed green was a primary ball handler equal to kpj.

    Might as well admit u haven't been watching the season whatsoever and just wanted to stir sht up.

    Comprehensive. Pfffffft
     
  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    bUt tHe uSaGe rAtE
     
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  16. saleem

    saleem Contributing Member

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    I think Jalen Green 's efficiency will go up with added physical strength and hard work.
     
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  17. Landry's Tooth

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    I thought it would be obvious that it was same stage in career. It makes no logical sense to compare full careers of Kyrie or Murray to 2 years of Green.

    You cite fg% as if it's the only thing i mentioned. I don't think it's as important as other figures but i had it already up and calculated so i mentioned.

    I think you need to recognize when people rave about Green in support it's only about one thing and I did give him credit for it.

    Try to be level-headed about it...
     
  18. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

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    Add in a real pg/actual coach with a structured offense system.

    Give Jalen green harden and his efficiency will go up. Folks tend to downplay good playmaking effects
     
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  19. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Dude your instance on using fg% is so funny. Why? Like ts% and efg% are readily available from the exact same sites you got fg% from.

    It's so weird. There literally is zero value in fg% when efg% and ts% are available. And in some cases using the numbers I'm suggesting hurts Green's case with some of the players you listed. So now it's just a matter of principle. Why even use these useless stats?

    My frustration is that a basic understanding of the math and formulas used for each metric makes it blatantly obvious that there is no point on fg%. Efg% and ts% properly weight the value of each type of score hence why there is no point of fg%. It doesn't weight anything.
     
  20. Hank McDowell

    Hank McDowell Member

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    I'm not a huge fan of his overall game at this point, but let's see if he improves with better coaching, especially in the effort areas. He was allowed to do whatever he wanted under the previous regime. I'm not sure that did his development any favors.
     
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