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Most Comprehensive Jalen Sucks Thread

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Landry's Tooth, May 11, 2023.

  1. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    I will give you a example how dumb he is. He isn’t showing you the numbers. What’s the other players rankings? I think we are all interested to know and we would be surprised. Mind you his whole premise is Jalen sucks based on his rookie year numbers and only his rookie year numbers relative to an arbitrary 11 other players he dug up (which is missing quite a few players). That right there is a flawed premise since it’s not logically accurate. If a player is judged on his rookie year numbers then most players in the league by this logic would “suck”. But he didn’t present you all this did he? He selectively left out a lot of big name guys as well strictly using a 19 year old arbitrary bullshi+ premise. And comparing assists with pg’s are dumb. I got more. But too long to post. I actually was nice to him until he popped off his damn mouth. This is probably the dumbest OP I’ve seen to date.
     
    #261 Stephen_A, May 14, 2023
    Last edited: May 14, 2023
  2. Landry's Tooth

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    You are going to need to explain why point guards have an advantage in shooting, rebounding, and defense.

    You don't because I caught you making a dumb claim.


    I haven't blocked you because I find it hilarious you trying to focus on less than 10% of the data so you can excuse bad play by your hero of losing basketball...
     
  3. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    He isn’t behind Edwards in numbers. And if you look at deeper numbers which I will present you will see that his numbers are better than Edwards across the board in most categories.
     
  4. Landry's Tooth

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    Imagine comparing a player by 10 different data points to other players his size and age then focusing on just one or two things because all the others prove you wrong...
     
  5. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Yes I agree. A lot of data isn’t or hasn’t been represented. If you look at a lot of players who have developed into stars their numbers rookie year may surprise you. But if you closely analyze their numbers and track them you would see growth and progress. This is player evolution. This whole conversation has been centered around rookie year numbers. That’s crazy lol
     
    #265 Stephen_A, May 14, 2023
    Last edited: May 14, 2023
  6. Dobbizzle

    Dobbizzle Member

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    Sorry, were you under the impression that I'm gonna bite on the straw man arguments and argue back and forth with logical fallacies for 10 pages? I've better things to do with my time tbh.
     
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  7. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Lavine had lower efficiency as a rookie. OP was only comparing rookie numbers. Plus Lavine didn’t score as much per game or per minute. But again per 36 should not be the only metric we look at when building a composite. Zach Lavine was 19 years old when he entered the league but was selectively left out of this list. Again whole premise fuc$ked up
     
  8. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    .
    There are guys like Booker that aren't on the list which is probably the most one to one comparison you can find of Green's first two years. Similar output, efficiency and level of team.
     
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  9. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

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    Pg and sg are not the same. Keep telling folks otherwise.

    The fact that u need me to explain the difference between the two guard position just goes to show how stupid u are.

    When presenting data even if a few data point is fudge or made up and is found out, the whole presentation is deem sht. Comparing 8 out of 10 players who are pg to sht on green a sg is stupid as fk.

    The fact that u titled it comprehensive and doubling down on making sht comparison just makes it pointless to reason with u furthermore.
     
    #269 DatRocketFan, May 14, 2023
    Last edited: May 14, 2023
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  10. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    And noticed how he used per 36 for his analysis which is a projection of a players numbers to normalize based on scoring per minute and should not be the only metric to look at when building a player composite. Here’s another one for ya. He left out Devin Booker and Lavine and many more who were “19”. The 19 yr old premise is dumb anyway since a lot of players enter the league at 20 after a one and done. Some are 20 others 19. Jalen went to G league. But point is a lot of players have 1 year experience thru G league or college. And if the argument is that being 1 year older disqualifies a player from this bullshi+ list since they are more “experienced” then i would like to see this argument lol. So the arbitrary list of strictly 19 year olds in this 12 player sample size is stupid.
     
  11. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Again “positionless” basketball is a hyperbolic and often misrepresented and misunderstood term coined by Spoelstra. Luka is a pg according to the mavs lineup and how he plays. He may have the body type of a 3 or a 4 but he is a pg by the way he plays. The ball is in his hands bringing it up from the backcourt. The ball is in his hands in the half court. He predominantly dribble drives to make plays to the corners or shooters on the wing or off high screen and roll. PG is his position lol.

    Spoelstra was likely referring to how players have developed a lot of skillsets that blend into other traditional positions which changes the dynamic of the game and that’s the nature of modern day basketball. Players like Bam or Sengun can handle the ball full court if they needed to. Siakim can push ball full court or set up the offense in the half court. Guys like Julius Randle can move like a 2 off a high screen and roll or an offball screen for a catch and shoot. Point forwards like lebron or a Jimmy Butler and those players mentioned have been more present in today’s game but they are still rare and positions are still delineated on the court and in match ups and lineups you still need bigs and 3s to guard 3s or big 2s etc. Bigs are still setting on ball screens and offball to free guards and 3s. Besides guys like Butler or Siakm or Sengun don’t handle the ball or necessarily set up the offense every or most posessions. They all have point guards to handle the ball and calm the offense or direct the flow in the half court. Overused and overrated term.
     
    #271 Stephen_A, May 14, 2023
    Last edited: May 14, 2023
  12. Landry's Tooth

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    You are going to need to explain why point guards have an advantage in shooting, rebounding, and defense.
     
  13. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

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    They play different position.

    What's the difference between the likes of Kobe vs Nash. That's basically what u are asking.
     
  14. Landry's Tooth

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    Nash gets more assists, shoots better, and Kobe out defends and rebounds him.

    Don't know why that matters when Ball out rebounds, defends, and shoots Jalen.

    I'm really confused by your claim of 10 point guards...

    Lamelo Ball
    RJ Barrett
    Bradley Beal
    Luka Doncic
    Anthony Edwards
    Markell Fultz
    Kyrie Irving
    Enmanuel Mudiay
    Jamal Murray
    Deanglo Russell
    Coby White

    Murray and Russell are combo guards. Edwards isn't a PG. Beal isn't a PG. Luka isn't a PG. Barrett isn't a PG.

    So 5 point guards, 2 combo guards, 3 shooting guards, 1 wing.

    All about the same sizes....


    So weird counting error by you...
     
  15. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

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    Tell me what position does it say for luka at 0:45

    Like if u can't even tell what position luka plays how the hell is anyone suppose to take u seriously when u tried comparing a bunch of pg vs a pure sg to push your sht narrative
     
    #275 DatRocketFan, May 14, 2023
    Last edited: May 14, 2023
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  16. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    It’s not even comprehensive. Why leave out 20 year olds? Given the dumb premise there’s several 19 year olds missing on this list. Where’s the deeper numbers? Where are the paint efficiency numbers? Where are the jumpshot numbers? Where are the mid range numbers? Where’s the usual shi+ sports writers and those on this site always talk about in terms of PER or EFG% or TS? How much do these players edge him in rebounds? If its got a decimal in front of it does it even matter or should it be weighted so heavily?

    Green avg 3.4 reb on 31.9 avg minutes per game.
    Beal avg 3.8 reb per 31.2 min per game.
    Mudiay avg 3.4 reb per 30.4 min per game.
    Irving avg 3.7 reb on 30.5 min per game.

    This is a 0.3-0.4 reb diff in 1.5 to 0.7 min less than Green. According to per 36 numbers this qualifies these players numbers to rise and grab more rebounds in that 5 to 6 min span. Again this is a projection and normalization simply based on rebounds per minute not one game while not taking into account pace of the team or extra possessions on offense which allows for more rebounding opportunities etc.

    After per 36:
    Green 3.8 reb
    Mudiay 4.0 reb
    Irving 4.4 reb
    Beal 4.4 reb

    So looking at the few players I noted here we are talking about projected per 36 to normalize the players’ production within this set arbitrary timeframe. And after the per 36, these players reb are 0.6 to 0.2 higher than Green’s. Mind you these players play similar minutes to Green as I pointed out with a min or so difference per game. And the number difference in rebounds both per game and per 36 are small and negligible. Does having a 0.6 to 0.2 diff in reb determine whether a player “sucks” or not as good as his peers based on a per 36 metric in rebounds? Its like saying player A should get MVP over player B because his rebounds are 0.4 more after per 36 and Fuc$ it let’s not look at the deeper numbers or take into account how the team plays or his role or anything fuc$ing qualitative.

    And again the OP used 8 per 36 statistics to support his weak as$ argument. Per 36 isn’t the only metric one should use to analyze player performance especially when it doesn’t take into account other variables. It gives clues to how a player performs but should be used with other advanced metrics and techniques including the eye test to assess players.

    And What’s the other players’ numbers relative to this sorry 12 player list? Why aren’t those numbers presented? The OP title “Most Comprehensive Jalen Green Sucks Thread” already shows a bias against Green. How can what he represents or reports be trusted or deemed valid when there was already a bias initially? Compounded with consistent judgements about Green’s character or nails or who Green is fuc$ing this builds a composite of OP as a damn hater. I ain’t done yet. I got more coming for this dumbas$
     
    #276 Stephen_A, May 14, 2023
    Last edited: May 14, 2023
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  17. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    I think it would be interesting to compile a very comprehensive breakdown of the numbers of some of today’s top stars in their rookie year. I think it would clear up a lot of assumptions, judgements, and biases from people who argue or seem to expect that players are great from the time they enter the league. But yes OP left out Booker and Lavine and he left out one and done players who just happened to be 20 years old.
     
  18. Landry's Tooth

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    https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/doncilu01.html

    My apologies, someone else called him a forward so i deferred to their judgment.

    He's a combo guard...

    4th time...

    Explain how point guards have an advantage on defense, rebounding, and shooting?

    Explain why you think the nba trend of positionless basketball is a myth.

    It's really embarrassing for you that you keep ignoring the obvious flaw to your argument.

    Why should I even take you seriously when you counted 10 players when there were 5????

    You can't even count....
     
  19. Landry's Tooth

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    "Luka Donic, despite being a combo guard, is not a point guard. During his first season at Real Madrid, he primarily played at the 3 position, but he also played off the ball and could get involved in PnR situations."

    Yeah... point guard allright...

    His rookie year the guard with second most minutes played was Jalen Brunson, a 6'1" 190 pound point guard.
     
  20. Landry's Tooth

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    I know you're trying very hard. It does take a lot of effort to paint Jalen Green as a good player.

    It's causing some really silly things to be posted by you...

    Don't forget to answer the question.... 4th time is the charm hopefully....
     
    Bobbythegreat likes this.

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